Shower handle sticking out too far

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plumber69

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Just to illustrate my husband's (alphonse55) point...

This is what our shower currently looks like....
f_DSCN3972m_1f72fc9.jpg


f_DSCN3971m_62681ce.jpg


this can't be right
Wow easy fix I
 

Chris32NY

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Long time reader of this site. Just signed on because this subject has my interest.
I am currently in the process at picking out products for my bathroom remodel.
Gearing towards Moen due to their reputation as being a high end product with great service if the products fails, etc.
I wanted to see other reviews to base my purchase on. Dozens of complaints on the shower handle sticking out too far.
Moen knows about this issue, stating the following-
"By Consumer Services,
Moen PosiTemp Shower faucets, is designed to be installed in tub/showers constructed of various materials. Since the thickness of wall covering materials can differ as well as the placement of the valve behind the wall, installations will vary. An option available to help reduce the space behind the handle is to add a trim ring to move the face plate away from the wall, thus lessening the gap."
Sorry Moen, this isn't right. No excuse. If the handle sticks out, Moen should give you the trim kit for FREE or include one in the product box (just in case).

Now I am wondering if this happens with Kohler, Delta, or Brizo, etc products?
 

Terry

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Now I am wondering if this happens with Kohler, Delta, or Brizo, etc products?

Yes, things happen all the time. I can't tell you how many times we've come back, and the wall was shimmed out farther or the tile was larger than we were told.
Kohler sells you a spacer for when that happens. It's not free. And there isn't a reason why it should be free.
Moen does have a good safety factor built in.
Some brands give you so little room for mistakes, that frankly, plumbers won't install them.

moen-tub-shower-terrylove-03.jpg
 
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jadnashua

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The safest thing to do is to mock up the wall construction to determine how YOU like the look of the valve. Most have a min/max, and that variation only affects if the trim will fit, not that it looks best - that's up to you. Kohler has some that must be installed with 1/16" accuracy from what others have said...try that when you have tile...not very easy. Most give you a range more reasonable.
 

hj

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When the faucet is installed with the "plaster ground ring" flush with the wall surface, as this one WAS, the handle WILL have that much exposure. Customers are expecting to see an installation which looks like the showroom display which is NOT installed the normal way.
 

jadnashua

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I highly recommend anyone to mock up the trim on any valve prior to deciding where to mount the rough-in. There's a min/max range where the trim will fit, but you may not like the way it looks at one end or the other. Also keep in mind that too far out has no simple fix once the wall is finished unless you can access things from the rear. Not every model has an extension kit if it's too far the other way, either.
 

jb9

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Moentrol2.jpg
Moentrol1.jpg


Hello,

I have learned a lot from all the pros on this site and I think I might be able to finally contribute something back. I just installed a Moentrol Valve and I am getting ready to trim out the shower. Anyhow, I had read this thread a while ago and I tried to take precautions on how far back I would need to install the valve. Before the installation, I had my 3 variables identified:

1. Where to install the valve... Documentation wasn't helpful.
2. Wall assembly (tile) defined. In my case, a 3/8" tile PLUS a 1/2" Kerdi board substrate.
3. Trim package (design and color and... I bought it so it was in my hand)

Ok, now I had all the pieces more or less figured out. Now I started the install. I decided to keep the plaster ground about 7/8" from the face of my studs. If I added 1/4" to the 7/8", I would get around 1 1/8" which would basically be equal to the 3/8" tile plus the substrate plus the thinset (1/8"). The next thing I did was assemble and loosely install the trim package (without the tile in place). This step was more or less the recommendation of Jim D (jadnashua)... Essentially, mock it up. The main issue of course is that one would install the valve and trim but NOT be able to shut off the water because the handle would bottom out on the escutcheon. So during the mockup, I definitely made sure that the trim handle would absolutely shut off the valve (by pushing it all the way in) and not bottom out. The other thing I want to mention is that I chose a dark (oil rubbed bronze) finish and that definitely makes the assembly look better. Here are a couple pictures. One is the gap I'll get (where the escutcheon will land) and the other is what the valve looks like in the "off" position (pushed in). I hope this helps... Like I said, I took a lot of the recommendations here and hopefully I'll get a good result.
 

plumber69

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View attachment 54199 View attachment 54200

Hello,

I have learned a lot from all the pros on this site and I think I might be able to finally contribute something back. I just installed a Moentrol Valve and I am getting ready to trim out the shower. Anyhow, I had read this thread a while ago and I tried to take precautions on how far back I would need to install the valve. Before the installation, I had my 3 variables identified:

1. Where to install the valve... Documentation wasn't helpful.
2. Wall assembly (tile) defined. In my case, a 3/8" tile PLUS a 1/2" Kerdi board substrate.
3. Trim package (design and color and... I bought it so it was in my hand)

Ok, now I had all the pieces more or less figured out. Now I started the install. I decided to keep the plaster ground about 7/8" from the face of my studs. If I added 1/4" to the 7/8", I would get around 1 1/8" which would basically be equal to the 3/8" tile plus the substrate plus the thinset (1/8"). The next thing I did was assemble and loosely install the trim package (without the tile in place). This step was more or less the recommendation of Jim D (jadnashua)... Essentially, mock it up. The main issue of course is that one would install the valve and trim but NOT be able to shut off the water because the handle would bottom out on the escutcheon. So during the mockup, I definitely made sure that the trim handle would absolutely shut off the valve (by pushing it all the way in) and not bottom out. The other thing I want to mention is that I chose a dark (oil rubbed bronze) finish and that definitely makes the assembly look better. Here are a couple pictures. One is the gap I'll get (where the escutcheon will land) and the other is what the valve looks like in the "off" position (pushed in). I hope this helps... Like I said, I took a lot of the recommendations here and hopefully I'll get a good result.
I usually always dryfit my trim to see how its going look when finished. Specially with moen, not so much the delta rough
 

AlexWilliams

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Moen 82496

My plumber just replaced an old Delta single handle shower/tub fixture and installed a Moen 82496bn. I chose this Moen because it had a spout that didn't protrude too much and a smaller shower head. The handle sticks out about 3.75 inches+ from the finished wall ( the gap between the handle cover and the wall plate is about 1 1/4 inch. It is not aesthetically pleasing at all, but I have an older house and I'm only willing to do repairs without remodeling or tearing out walls. The plumber and I didn't want to break the tile and open the wall beyond the existing 6 inch diameter opening. The wall tiles are not thick but the mudded wall behind it is about 1 inch thick. Is there any adjustment that can be made to reduce the gap? Thanks to everyone for all the information. Jim's link to the Moen specification website was very helpful as well as Terry's information on Moen's tolerance for installation.
I also find great information and tips here. I'm glad you solved your issues
 

oliverthom707

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I completely remodeled my bathroom all the way down to the studs. I also have a Moen faucet, a bit different "style" than yours, but I bet you the guts are still the same. When we put the new valve in, we put into place the fiberglass surround and removed it several times, adjusting the placement of the valve to make sure it fit correctly. (2 pc tub, it was a pain to keep adjusting it, but you can't do it after the sheetrock is in place..!) mobdro Regards, tubemate
 
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It seems like the plaster ground is off by 3/8". I mocked everything up and if I was to add 3/8" inch to the plaster ground thickness, it will move the valve back by the same amount. This results in the faucet handle in a "nice" location, not sticking out too far.

Is there any reason not to add this 3/8"

Thank you
 

jadnashua

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As long as you are within the min/max in the instructions, the trim will fit. SO, put it where you want, but if you get it too deep in the wall if you didn't figure your finished wall thickness properly, you'll lose that layout, and not every valve has an extension kit for it.

The min/max is just an indication that it will fit, not necessarily that you'll prefer that location. That's why it is important to mock it up. You don't want your fingers getting jammed, or the handle rubbing on something, or the screws not long enough to attach the trim...those are the factors for the min/max, not aesthetics.
 
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As long as you are within the min/max in the instructions, the trim will fit. SO, put it where you want, but if you get it too deep in the wall if you didn't figure your finished wall thickness properly, you'll lose that layout, and not every valve has an extension kit for it.

The min/max is just an indication that it will fit, not necessarily that you'll prefer that location. That's why it is important to mock it up. You don't want your fingers getting jammed, or the handle rubbing on something, or the screws not long enough to attach the trim...those are the factors for the min/max, not aesthetics.

Thank you, per Moen 1/2 to 1 inch is acceptable between plate and the handle. That number is not on the provided instruction sheet, but can be found on their website.
 
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