Water too high in old American Standard toilet bowl

Discussion in 'Toilet Forum discussions' started by Al Wet, Mar 6, 2021.

  1. Al Wet

    Al Wet Member

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    Arkansas
    I just searched for 30 minutes on google and youtube and kept getting videos off the subject even when I put in "too high" or -lower. They always deal with the tank or if they deal with the bowl talk about too low a water level. The toilet bowl water level is slightly too high so that sometimes that hand touches it. It's not running and flushes OK. I have a Fluidmaster 400a universal fill valve. Could someone tell me what I should do with it or should I put something in the tank like a filled plastic bottle. I'd like to lower the bowl level for at least an inch maybe two. Thanks.
     
  2. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

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    Location:
    IL
    You are the first with that complaint that I remember.

    New toilet is called for. The water level in the toilet bowl is really called for by the toilet design. If you keep a plunger nearby, a modern toilet will probably let you store that plunger in a less-handy place.

    But if you really want to lower the level in your old toilet against advice, get a refill hose with a pinch clamp, and adjust to under-fill the bowl.
    https://www.homedepot.com/p/Fluidma...ip-with-Adjustable-Roller-Clamp-215/202510400

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 6, 2021
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  4. Sarg

    Sarg Enjoy Learning

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    Several of the Fluidmaster refill valves include a "throttle" clamp that goes onto the refill tubing that goes to the overflow tube. Cutting back on the amount of water going to the overflow after flushing will lower the level in the bowl. I do not think the clamps are included in the 400a basic unit. The tubing refill tube shown is from Amazon and they want as much money for just the tubing as an entire new "advanced" fill valve with the clamp included costs.



    fm_fillvalve_siphon.jpg

    Refill tubing.jpg
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2021
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  5. Al Wet

    Al Wet Member

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    Appreciate these replies. The toilet has actually been like that for as long as I can remember. The water level was always slightly irritating. Not causing a problem in terms of thinking it will overflow. Just a little too close so every once in a while the hand or toilet paper comes in contact. I didn't quite follow what you meant with: "If you keep a plunger nearby, a modern toilet will probably let you store that plunger in a less-handy place." Even though the tank doesn't look lovely I actually gave the lower part a thorough cleaning some months ago when it wasn't completely flushing. I suspect that was more caused by the septic tank. It was replaced and no more flushing problems after that. I haven't tried that pinch clamp thing before. Thanks.
     

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  6. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

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    A new 1.2 gpf toilet, and even 1.0 from what I have read. is surprisingly less likely to need a plunger to unclog something than an old 3.5 gpf toilet with the lazy flush. I like my 1.6 gpf Vespin that I got when the 1.2s were becoming more common. The first 1.6 gpf toilets were notoriously bad. If your toilet does not clog, you are unlikely to keep a plunger handy.

    A new toilet would probably sit higher (sometimes called "chair height"), and that would contribute to solving the water surface spacing problem.

    But you are right about the septic, although if that is contributing to bad flushing, you would probably see effects in the shower. An experienced septic pump person can usually give useful info as to how full or over-full your tank was. It is much cheaper to get that pumped more often than needed than less often than needed.
     
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  7. Al Wet

    Al Wet Member

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    I experimented with it today. I turned that phillips looking adjuster and made it so the float turned off sooner. I took the hose entirely out of the overflow tube and it worked great in terms of lowering the bowl level. The next time I put the hose back in the overflow tube and it was back to the high level already before the tank was even 1/3 full. What's the point of that thing anyway? To aid the flush? If it flushes OK without it in there can't I just leave it out? Thanks.
     
  8. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

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    You have an old school American Standard. I would guess that there was no bowl refill for that toilet. New fill valves tend to come with the refill though.
     
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  9. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

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    Most toilets don't flush so well unless the bowl is refilled.
     
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  10. Al Wet

    Al Wet Member

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  11. Al Wet

    Al Wet Member

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    Well, last night I left the hose out of the overflow tube. The level was about 2-3 inches lower than it has been. This morning it was back to it's same old place. Is it leaking from the flapper? I don't hear the tank refilling. Every once in a great while I've heard it though. Thanks.
     
  12. Sarg

    Sarg Enjoy Learning

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    If you occasionally hear the tank valve in cycle the flapper must be seeping.
    If you want less water in the bowl ... you lower the fill valve float .... which allows less water into the tank .... that goes to the bowl on the next flush ( Just don't hold the lever down so the flush valve flapper stays open longer than it should.)
    Be sure the flapper is centered over the flush valve opening and the chain that pulls up the flapper is directly above with minimal slack that might interfere with the flapper sealing. As Reach4 & Terry mentioned earlier the trapway in your older toilet allows for a higher level inside the bowl .... To derive a specific depth in the bowl ... your only option seems to be the volume in the tank you allow.

    Here's a video on toilet function.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2021
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  13. Tuttles Revenge

    Tuttles Revenge In the Trades

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    Oct 15, 2014
    Isn't the height of the water in the toilet bowl determined by the height of the weir of the trap? Just like every trap?

    The simplest solution might be to get a taller toilet seat.
     
  14. Al Wet

    Al Wet Member

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    I don't know about these weirs and trap things but good to get get opinions from you guys that do. I tried one toilet seat riser was used for an elderly man. I remember the hole seemed smaller than a regular toilet seat but I'll keep that in mind. Surely cheaper and a lot less trouble than buying a new toilet. I guess I'll search for a new flapper. I think I replaced it once many years ago and it was a pretty weird circular disc one I had trouble finding.
     
  15. Peterson

    Peterson Member

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    PA
    That particular toilet model (American Standard Cadet toilet from the 1960's and 70's) has a high water level in the bowl. It is just the way that they are made. Toilets today have much less water in the bowl.

    What I would do is disconnect the refill tube in the tank from the overflow tube and have it spray into the tank instead of down the overflow tube into the bowl. You might want to zip tie it to the overflow tube so it doesn't come loose. There should still be enough water in the bowl to adequately flush the toilet as the tilt disc actuator (or whatever they called it) usually stays open long enough to almost refill the bowl after it finishes siphoning out.
     
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