TOTO Ultramax II, MS604114CEFG toilet reviews & pictures

Discussion in 'Toilet Forum discussions' started by Terry, Jul 19, 2008.

  1. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

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    If you have a flapper in the tank, it's a 1.28
    If you have a cannister flush valve, it's a 1.00 gallon.
    The porcelain is the same.

    [​IMG]

    The one gallon flush version.
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2016
  2. flapper

    flapper Member

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    May 19, 2016
    Location:
    California
    How well does the unigallon flush?
     
  3. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

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    It flushes just fine.
    Also, if you want more water you can also hold the handle down a bit longer instead of releasing.
     
  4. Will_CA

    Will_CA New Member

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    California
    It's definitely the 1.28 with the flapper. I noticed the 1G had the little canister thing. Must have just stamped this one incorrectly. Oh well, it works awesome.
     
  5. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

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    [​IMG]

    Thank you so much. We love the Toto. My only wish is that I wish the there were two buttons to open the lid and or seat separately. Many of the totos in Japan had this. Also wish it had auto flush. But otherwise awesome.
    Omar

    [​IMG]

    MS604114CUFG-01 with S350e Washlet.
     
  6. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

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    [​IMG]

    TOTO has a new flush valve for the MS604. I've yet to see it though.

    [​IMG]
     
  7. Steve20A

    Steve20A New Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2007
    Location:
    Naples, FL
    So, I needed to replace a toilet that my wife didn't like. Wasn't broken, but never flushed well. We didn't do it when we did a big remodel two years ago, so it was time. I started looking for replacements - read Consumer Reports, thought back to what a plumber friend had said a few years ago and thought of Terry Love's web site. Toto looked good everywhere. I chose the TOTO Ultramax II MS604114CEFG for maximum flushing capability.


    I thought, "I can do this," so I ordered the toilet from Lowe's up the street ($532, delivered to my apartment and returnable to Lowe’s if the toilet was defective in any way) and started researching not so much the process, but what could go wrong. Apparently a lot can go wrong, but I thought I had a good shot at a successful install. My "Plan B" was to confess my shortcomings and call a plumber to correct/finish the job. The toilet arrived more quickly than I expected and I started to unpack it. Man alive. It was packed so well, you could have dropped it from a plane without damage. Kudos to Toto. It took a couple of hours to unpack (neatly and cleanly inside the apartment).


    I pulled the old toilet, a builder's Kohler, and that old sinking feeling started welling up. First, the flange was extended with a very soft plastic ring held in place by two concrete screws. Second, the original plastic flange was completely broken. The only thing keeping it in place was that it was attached by a thread to the "stem" that fit into the pipe in the floor. It was broken so badly, it looked like it had to come out completely. What was in the floor turned out to be a 3" PVC pipe with a belled end (expanded part) that allowed another 3" pipe to fit in it. It was flush with the concrete floor. The pipe that fit into the floor pipe was part of the busted up closet flange. How to get the inside piece of the closet flange out? I stuffed some rags into a zip-lock bag, pushed it into the floor pipe and went back to the computer.


    I searched Google and YouTube and found a couple of videos showing that if the inserted pipe had not been properly solvent welded, it could probably be chipped out. The video showed how to use a poke saw to cut two parallel lines in the inside pipe and then gently, with a chisel or screwdriver, chip out that small section. If it popped out, the whole inserted pipe could eventually come out. I didn’t have a poke saw, but I thought that a wallboard saw, even though it had very aggressive teeth, would work. Work it did. And, lo and behold, the small part popped off. After a lot of gentle chipping, the complete pipe was out. I smoothed out the inside with sandpaper and had a clean floor pipe to use.


    I shopped at Lowe's, Home Depot and Ace Hardware and all I could find was a 3" closet flange with a stem that seemed a bit too long. Maybe in a new belled end in the floor it might have worked, but I was afraid to push it all the way in to test it, for fear that I would not be able to get it out. I hack-sawed off 3/8" of the stem and it looked like it would be a pretty good fit. I still needed a spacer, but, all-in-all, the new flange and spacer came in at about 3/8" above the floor, supported on good concrete. I drilled four holes in the concrete and used 4 Tapcon 3/16” x 2 3/4" screws. The new flange was solid (and looked pretty good).


    Then it was wax ring time. With a horn or without? Standard or extra thick? The old wax kind or one of the newfangled silicone rings? The fellow in Lowe’s said, “Wax has been working for 100 years. Why push your luck?” That sounded like good advice. I bought a horned type and a spare without a horn (I don’t know why).


    I put the horned ring in place, lowered the toilet into place and thought it didn’t go down quite as far as I might want it to. Probably close enough. The toilet rocked a bit, but maybe it would work. And then, like a bolt of lightning, a terrible thought struck me. I hadn’t removed the rags stuffed in the floor. The first test flush would have been a disaster. So off the toilet came, along with a totally destroyed wax ring. The horned ring appeared to have not only the horn and the wax, but some kind of plastic gasket. Maybe that’s what took up some extra space and prevented the toilet from seating perfectly.


    After I cleaned everything up, I thought I should check with Terry Love’s web site again. And Terry recommends only using a horned ring if you are using two rings (put the horned ring above the regular ring. Otherwise, just use one regular ring. Also, another site said to dry fit the toilet and get your shims ready and in place. I got the shims in place, put the regular ring on the closet flange, REMOVED THE RAGS, and lowered the toilet once again. And this time it fit perfectly. I tightened the bolts, cut off the tops, put the caps in place and installed the seat. (Why, when you saw the bolts off at the indents, is the bolt still too tall for cap to fit? Why don’t they make bolts with two indents, so you can saw it shorter? More mysteries of the universe…)


    It’s a beautiful thing. The toilet flushes perfectly and leaves zero in the bowl. It uses 1.28 gallons of water and, as someone pointed out, if you need an extra powerful flush, just hold the handle a bit longer. There is water in the tank that isn’t used in a normal flush, but is available for those “special” needs. And, most important, the wife is happy. Thrilled even.


    Hey, a big “thank you” to Terry Love and everyone who contributes to his site. Seeing so many people doing this job successfully so many times, gave me the confidence to try and the tools to succeed.


    Happy flushing!


    Steve G.
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2016
    Terry likes this.
  8. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

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    Bothell, Washington
    [​IMG]

    The new flush tower.
     
  9. Steve20A

    Steve20A New Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2007
    Location:
    Naples, FL
    So, a follow-up after having installed the TOTO Ultramax II MS604114CEFG at the end of October. We love the toilet, make no mistake, but here are two comments from two months' worth of usage.

    1. When the tank fills and then shuts off, it is loud. The mechanism allows for full water flow and then goes to zero water flow, so you don't have a gradual decrease in the water volume. It shuts off with a snap. Anyone have a suggestion to soften this sound?

    2. The tank top is not level, even though the toilet is installed level. They designed it to be slanted toward the front. This makes it very hard to have anything placed on top of the tank top, like a box of tissues. I solved this by using a sheet of non-slip material designed to keep a cell phone from sliding off a dashboard. The black color ain't pretty, but the tissues cover most of it. Any reason why the top is not designed to be level and useful as a small shelf?

    Anyway, back to praise. It's the best, best toilet I have ever had the pleasure to use. The bowl stays clean and everything flushes down. What more do you want? Again, thanks to Terry and the gang for great advice.

    To everyone, have a Happy New Year.
     
  10. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

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    Location:
    IL
    You could put in a water hammer arrestor at the water turn off, but I hope that is not necessary. I thought the fill valves usually closed slowly enough that this would not be needed. I think I have read suggestions about partially closing the shut-off valve and getting rid of the water hammer.
     
  11. Steve20A

    Steve20A New Member

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    May 23, 2007
    Location:
    Naples, FL
    Thanks for your quick response. Not sure if I have a lot of room underneath to install an arrestor, but I'll look. For sure, I can try closing the shut-off valve a bit and see what happens.
     
  12. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

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    Sep 25, 2013
    Location:
    IL
    See Sioux Chief 660 TK. www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiK8Z981rMo

    Another option would be a slower-closing fill valve. I am wondering if Korky "QuietFILL" brand name is referring to slow close at all, or something else.
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2016
  13. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

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    Toto uses several suppliers for their fill valves...many of them come with a branded Korky valve which does shut off more gradually. If your water pressure is high, it is more noticeable, and you might want to check that. Toto might send you a new valve if you call and discuss it with them.
     
  14. Steve20A

    Steve20A New Member

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    Naples, FL
    @Reach4 @jadnashua
    Thanks for your additional suggestions. I tried @Reach4's suggestion of closing the shut-off valve a bit (about 3/4 of a turn) and that worked. It's much quieter now and fully acceptable.
    Thanks again.
    Steve
     
  15. irev210

    irev210 New Member

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    Jan 25, 2013
    Location:
    MA

    Any thoughts on the performance between the flush tower and the flapper? I ordered two 1.28gpf soiree and 1 came with the flapper and the other with the flush tower. Same part #.
     

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  16. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

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    Whether it's the flapper or the tower, they are both 3" into the bowl. They look to be working the same to me.
     
  17. r.j.

    r.j. New Member

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    Apr 4, 2017
    Location:
    California
    Hi Terry and All,

    I've been reading this thread from the very 1st post up to now and am glad I found this place. I am planning to buy 2 Toto but getting totally stuck. It would be great to get your feedback and insight and I appreciate it.



    1.
    CST744EL
    MS604114CEFG
    CST454CEFG

    From what I've researched so far it seems that the above two Tornado toilets stick from solid wastes. And between the two Tornado toilets, I think the two piece flushes slightly better with less residue than the one piece. Also, I am not able to get too much info on the E-Max toilet but one plumber told me he so far hasn't heard residue issues from his clients on this model, yet he heard few residue complaints on 454. I know that Tornado flushing is supposed to be better than E-Max. However based on my research I don't know for sure. So, in the order of importance on 1)flushing well and no residue, 2)durability, 3)noise, I wonder which one of the 3 is the best.



    2.
    I wonder how well 1G Toto toilets flush. From what I've researched so far they seem to leave residue from solid wastes as well. Does pressing down the lever without releasing like 1.28G help, and if so to what extent ?
     
  18. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

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    I have had them all.
    I prefer the II systems over the original bowls. I like the smooth bowl finish and the swirl on the rinse.
    I don't see much difference between the one-piece and the two-piece. I have both.
    downstairs I have the original one-piece Ultramax MS854114SG at the moment which works great.
    The CST744E without the finish did take more cleaning. That one is gone now.
    You can read all the reviews, but one thing that keeps coming up is that some people that are removing toilets from the 60's have different expectations. When you're flushing with seven gallons, and there is no bowl surface to be had, then that large pool of water is softening everything up. A bowl with a dry surface is going going to be more work.
    My master toilet has a Washlet that premists the bowl when I sit down, wetting everything in the bowl down. Yeah........that helps.
    I sell plenty of the MS604 and plenty of the CST454. All of those get good reviews from customers.
    The 1 gallon flushes fine, and if you want more rinse, just like the 1.28's, you can hold the handle to extend the duration of the rinse with more water.
     
  19. r.j.

    r.j. New Member

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    Apr 4, 2017
    Location:
    California
    Thanks Terry for prompt feedback.

    Then if I hold the handle to extend the duration of the rinse with more water, how many gallons of water would that be for 1G nominal like CST454CUFG, MS604114CUFG, and for 1.28G nominal like CST744EL, CST454CEFG, MS604114CEFG ? And, I wonder what you think of CST744EL(universal height, E-Max, 1.28G, no finish) compared to MS604 1.28G or CST454 1.28G in terms of 1)flushing well and no residue or sticking, 2)durability, 3)noise.
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2017
  20. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

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    Plumber
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    The CST744EL, is very much like the CST744E
    Similar design, but a 2" difference in height.
    L = 16-1/2" high bowl
    F = 16-1/8" high bowl

    Tanks hold about 3 gallons of water, which normally doesn't all get used. Most of the time it doesn't all get used. Not unless you hold the handle down.
    Noise levels are similar.
    Trapway design is the same.
     
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