Toilet Flange Height Problem After Remodeling

[Ahmad]

Hi everyone!

I have started remodeling a washroom and having a bit a problem with the toilet flange height. I have installed a new plywood on top of old sub floor (as those old ones are not very strong) and planning on installing uncouple membrane then the tiles.

Currently (after installing the plywood) the flange (I believe cast iron closet flange, not sure, please see photos) is setting about 1/4" below the plywood sub floor, this means after adding membrane and tiles, the flange will be about 1 1/4" below the finished surface.

Now this will be too low for the toilet, so what are my options? I was thinking about extensions as the flange is solidly secured to the pipe as well as that I have remove the old word from around it and installed new ones, so that is holding is very secure. But I'm not sure if the flange extender are water tight or not? If yes, possible to provide the name/brand so I can take a look.

The other option would be to uninstall the flange and install a new one to the correct height, but I'm not sure how is the currently flange is connected to the waste pipe (again not sure if the waste pipe is brass or copper, please see the photos and advise if I can heat up the flange and uninstall it. If I go this route what would be a good new flange that I can install it? preferably one that would not require soldering as I'm comfortable soldering that big of a piece.

Please see the photos of the pipe, flange and the height of it from the plywood subfloor. the inside diameter is about 3"

Thanks for the help in advance.

 

[Reach4]

It looks like a brass closet flange soldered to a copper pipe. A cast iron flange would attract a magnet.

What diameter is the copper pipe?

One thing to consider would be to saw off the copper pipe below the flange, and attach a new plastic pipe to the desired height. A shielded rubber connector of the right sizes could make the connection. I am not a plumber.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Ahmad]

It looks like a brass closet flange soldered to a copper pipe. A cast iron flange would attract a magnet.

What diameter is the copper pipe?

One thing to consider would be to saw off the copper pipe below the flange, and attach a new plastic pipe to the desired height. A shielded rubber connector of the right sizes could make the connection. I am not a plumber.

The pipe diameter is 3".

I was hoping if I can simply heat the pipe withawith torch and remove the flange and install flange that will have an extra inch in height to solve the problem.

 

[Terry]

The pipe diameter is 3".

I was hoping if I can simply heat the pipe with a with torch and remove the flange and install flange that will have an extra inch in height to solve the problem.

I don't know where you will find a brass flange that is one inch deeper to fit on that copper.
You can push in a flange extender from the top though.

Or do as mentioned above, cut the pipe below, use a shield coupling meant for plastic to copper and install a new flange.

 

[Reach4]

Terry's Pushtite idea is easier.

If you did want to extend "3 inch" copper, which is actually 3-1/8 inch OD, with plastic, I think, you would probably use a Fernco 3007-33 or a Proflex P3007-33 or Mission PK-33 (similar to what is in your avitar).

That would probably involve cutting the copper shorter.

 

[Ahmad]

I don't know where you will find a brass flange that is one inch deeper to fit on that copper.
You can push in a flange extender from the top though.

Or do as mentioned above, cut the pipe below, use a shield coupling meant for plastic to copper and install a new flange.

Thanks, @Terry! This is much easier.
To confirm that I should keep the current flange in place in push push in the extender flange on top of it?

 

[Terry]

Thanks, @Terry! This is much easier.
To confirm that I should keep the current flange in place in push push in the extender flange on top of it?

Yes, the new flange pushes in from the top.

 

[Ahmad]

Terry's Pushtite idea is easier.

If you did want to extend "3 inch" copper, which is actually 3-1/8 inch OD, with plastic, I think, you would probably use a Fernco 3007-33 or a Proflex P3007-33 or Mission PK-33 (similar to what is in your avitar).

That would probably involve cutting the copper shorter.

Thanks @Reach4! I have used those coupling in the past and it's easy to use. I will go with the pushtite method first and see what happens. If that didn't work for whatever reason then I will have to cut the pipe.

 

[Jadnashua]

IMHO, a push-in seal can be an issue when used with a 3" pipe. It may not. The outlet of a typical toilet is a bit over 2". The wall thickness of that push-in flange is likely in the order of 1/4" plus a little bit of room for the rubber, so take away a bit over 1/2" making the ID of the thing slightly less than 2.5", or 1/2" less than they were designed to expect on the toilet. Some toilets turn their outlet so they point fairly straight down, and shouldn't have an issue. Some try to make a sharp right-angle turn right at their outlet, and trying to make it into that narrowed space can be a problem.

They aren't expensive, so you won't be out much. THe safer solution would be to cut the pipe off then use that coupler to a standard 3" flange. Then the full path would be 3".

 

[Terry]

Most of the time with new toilets you have a 2" trapway. This is a vertical drop. If you need to shorten the extension, a saw blade does that for you.
If that small section of pipe on the vertical blocks up, you have other issues.

 

[Jadnashua]

Look at the side view on both of these spec sheets and I think you'll see what I mean regarding right-angle turns.
https://terrylove.com/pdf/cst744sl.pdf
https://www.us.kohler.com/webassets/kpna/catalog/pdf/en/K-3828_spec_US-CA_Kohler_en.pdf

 

[Ahmad]

Thanks @jadnashua & @Terry! I went and checked the toilet that I have, fortunately it has a vertical drop, so no sharp turns....so I think it's worth going this route first and I will keep an eye incase if we notice any blockage.

@Terry I'm still trying to find this specific extension here in Toronto. I was able to find it's 4" version at home Depot but not the 3". So regarding shorting the extension (if needed), does the (foam?) gasket part move up and down to allow for it be sawed off?

 

[Jadnashua]

That flange has another strike against it IMHO...it's all plastic. You need to be careful to screw it down properly, then, ensure you don't tighten the flange bolts too tight, or you can warp it. Ensure that you use some caulk around the toilet to help seal it from crud getting beneath the toilet that's hard to clean, and, it also helps to keep the toilet in place in case it gets knocked sideways which could, if it's hard enough, damage the flange.

When setting the toilet, use your body weight to smush the wax, not the bolts. Once the toilet is solidly in place, snug up the nuts on the bolts. Using the bolts to do that can put a substantial point load on the plastic and, if you haven't bolted the flange to the floor, pull the flange up away from it.

 

[Terry]

The Push Tite rubber seal can be removed if you need to cut it shorter, and then it can be slipped back on.
In your case, there would be no need for that. You have a very long drain there.
Any flange needs to be secured to the floor. Every single one. It's the first thing you check before you event think about setting a toilet.

 

[riverdale]

Hey there Ahmad, any luck finding a 3" version of the PUSHTITE in Toronto? I'm looking for exactly the same thing.

I can find the OATEY Twist-N-Set locally but that is designed for cast iron, although people seem to us not for PVC and ABS as well. However, I'm concerned about the internal "shoulder" in those that seems like it would catch ALL the solids being flushed.

 

[riverdale]

Thanks @jadnashua & @Terry! I went and checked the toilet that I have, fortunately it has a vertical drop, so no sharp turns....so I think it's worth going this route first and I will keep an eye incase if we notice any blockage.

@Terry I'm still trying to find this specific extension here in Toronto. I was able to find it's 4" version at home Depot but not the 3". So regarding shorting the extension (if needed), does the (foam?) gasket part move up and down to allow for it be sawed off?

Hey Ahmad, I found the 3" version in the Toronto area (GTA) at a local plumbing supply house. Generally not sold to the public, just contractors, but they just told me to lie and say I was a contractor....easy. Not cheap, given that it's essentially a regular toilet flange with an additional gasket, but a well designed product and should be ideal for our situations. No sharp edges to catch solids on, all nice and smooth internally and the opening is a full 2 - 1/2" so shouldn't have any clogging issues.

Message me if you want details.

 

[Ahmad]

@riverdale thanks! yes, I was able to find it from a Plumbing supply store as well. Fortunately, they were selling to public or maybe didn't ask me if I was a contractor or not.

I'm still to install it as I was tiling the floor, but I'm not sure what size wax to use, as the regular ones that have a little plastic gasket/flange doesn't fit in the opening of push-tite. Any advice would be appreciated.

 

[Helper Dave]

If your flange height is correct now, just use a standard wax ring, not the horned/gasket type. Those are really just for less than ideal situations, imo. We reset so many toilets where the wax pulls apart from the horn, and causes leaks, too. Not worth it if you don't need it.