Overheating 1hp Goulds Pumps

Discussion in 'Pumps and Tanks Well Forum & Blog. Water is life.' started by Edrrt, Jun 1, 2020.

  1. valveman

    valveman Cary Austin Staff Member

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    If it is a 10GB10 running at less than 50 PSI, which is more than 16 GPM, could cause that pump to run in upthrust condition and draw high amps. It is really not suppose to draw more than 8.1 no matter the flow, but upthrust from too much flow could be causing the high amps. You know the amps drop when the flow is restricted. You just need to restrict the number of sprinklers to less than 16 GPM and keep the amps below 8.1.
     
  2. WorthFlorida

    WorthFlorida The wife is still training me.

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    I've been following this post. I still think the pump type is wrong for irrigation and it is small for the amount of irrigation that is being covered. This should have two setups, a 2HP or 3HP irrigation pump separate from the house, another for domestic use.
     
  3. valveman

    valveman Cary Austin Staff Member

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    I agree with you if the pump is allowed to cycle on and off like that. But this is very common. A Cycle Stop Valve will make a large pump do multiple smaller jobs, so an extra pump is not needed. I have customer with a 75HP irrigating a golf course, and because it is controlled by a CSV, the superintendents house also uses the same water. So, the 75HP supplies 800 GPM for the sprinklers or 5 GPM for a shower working with an 86 gallon pressure tank.

    The pump should be sized to the irrigation. If it takes 3HP to keep up with the sprinklers so be it. Then a CSV will make it work like a 1/2HP when only one shower is being used. But you need enough pump to supply the demand without overloading. Running a small pump wide open with back pressure too low will make it draw max amps.
     
  4. Edrrt

    Edrrt New Member

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    T

    I cant get it to draw less than 8.5amps without restricting the inflow to the pump.

    It runs on a pressure switch. 40-70 psi. At any point between 40-70psi it is drawing over 8.5amps.

    Reguardless of the number of sprinklers, pump clicks on... high amps. If only turn one faucet on it will take longer for the pressure switch to activate the pump but when it does it will still be drawing too many amps.
     
  5. Edrrt

    Edrrt New Member

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    Are there any other checks that I can do on the pressure tank? The salesman today stated that his guy told him the pressure tank was bad and so that needs to be replaced. Now they're also saying to solve the pump problem I should get a 2 horsepower pump with a variable speed motor and the variable speed motor will just take care of everything.
     
  6. valveman

    valveman Cary Austin Staff Member

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    LOL! Yeah right, the Variable Speed thing will solve all your problems. You would just be going from the frying pan into the fire. If at 70 PSI that pump is still drawing 8.5 amps, something is wrong with the pump. I agree it cycled itself to death, but you don't need a VFD variable speed thing to solve your problem. Go ahead and ask them to quote that variable speed system. Then go back to the normal and inexpensive jet pump like you used in the past. If you want as much pressure as you can get with a jet pump look at the J15S. Then put a $190 CSV1A on before the pressure tank, and it will stop the cycling and work better than the variable speed drive thing. You will have saved yourself a lot of money and a lot of down time without water flowing.

    That quote, that you "should get a 2 horsepower pump with a variable speed motor and the variable speed motor will just take care of everything", is a sure sign that your problem is an installer who hasn't got a clue what he is doing. You are doing the right thing by educating yourself, as you already know more than your installer, even though that doesn't take much. :)
     
  7. Edrrt

    Edrrt New Member

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    20200629_175820.jpg

    20200629_212804.jpg
    Installing a new pump. It has the pressure switch attached. Is it better to use the existing pressure switch attached to the pipe downstream and plug the one on the pump?
     

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    Last edited: Jun 29, 2020
  8. valveman

    valveman Cary Austin Staff Member

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    Even the switch on the line is not in the right place. The pressure switch should be close to the pressure tank, not the pump.
     
  9. Edrrt

    Edrrt New Member

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    You think it's important that I move it?
     
  10. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

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    Ideally the pump will sense the same pressure that the pressure tank does.

    If there is too much difference, the pump could turn off early, or could even double-clutch in rare cases.

    With a separate pressure switch, the sensing is usually where the switch is. With your sense line, the sensing is in the pump housing. One possibility would be to wait to see if there was any undesirable symptom the way it is. And if there is, extend that sense line over to the pressure tank pipe, and plug the hole in the pump housing.
     
  11. valveman

    valveman Cary Austin Staff Member

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    The switch on the pump will be even further away from the tank than the old switch, which was already too far from the tank. I suspect you will get the "double-clutch" or bouncing pressure switch unless you move the sensing line to the switch or place a new switch close to the tank.
     
  12. ballvalve

    ballvalve General Engineering Contractor

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    Hook it up and try it out. Likely it will be fine. This is a good chance to rid of all that galvanized pipe. Real pain to work with. I have started to use a clear vinyl USA made 1" hose with braided reinforcement in all my pump situations. Rated 160psi, and used with PVC unions, its a plumbers nightmare [little labor, easy fix] Good move to go with the Myers pump. I have exactly the same situation and have been debating to change for a long time. I have 3 old Myers [Teel] horizontal boosters like your Goulds, and by swapping parts, motors and even stators from new motors., I kept one running for 30 years. They made a "SPL" special shaft end so you can't use a 56J motor replacement. Criminal! But I beat the system with cannibalizing a new motor. Those motors run very hot as valveman said, no matter. Mine used to burn up when running with no or very low flow. I taped a tiny 210F overheat sensor to the pump head to solve that. Like 4$ for 10 of them. Ridiculous, Chinese crap but working.

    Save that old pump. I think its fine. Restrict the outlet, I think you were just moving too much water with not enough head. Along with the cycling
     
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  13. Edrrt

    Edrrt New Member

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    I wish I knew I could have used some other piping other than galvanized. I thought I read somewhere that the pump required galvanized pipe for grounding and also heat dissipation. Fitting up the galvanized was definitely a pain, expensive, and while those pipes are cerca 1991 the amount of rust inside was incredible. I personally think metal pipes and Water Systems don't mix. Everything should probably be plastic if it can.

    The pressure tank did end up in fact being bad. I disconnected it from the system and jostled it around enough to detect that there was a significant amount of water inside in spite of the pressure at the top seeming okay.

    20200701_232354.jpg

    The green pressure tube coming out of the T was just serving as a plug to test it. I kept the location of the original pressure switch and everything works perfectly. The water pressure and performance are actually better with this shallow well pump then with the goulds booster pump from before.

    On another note I took the plug out of the end off the booster pump and found that it was packed full of broken plastic.

    Apparently these booster pumps have a large number of polycarbonate diffusers inside which become very brittle overtime and essentially disintegrate. I'm sure that all of the rust debris accelerate the process. The simplest thing to do would probably have just been to take the cylinder off the booster and replace these discs. I think that the motor and the rest of the pump is probably fine, it's just over amping because there is so much resistance as the pumping mechanism is disintegrated. However I cannot figure out what part to order as the nomenclature on this pump, as posted previously, is different than the GB numbering system they use currently.

    Based on the pump number posted does anyone know what diffuser plates to order?

    Looking at this design, I don't think that I would ever install it if I had a choice. Having the pump Reliant upon 17 wafer-thin plastic discs that become brittle in a year or two and disintegrate does not seem like a robust design to me. I am glad that I went with a shallow well jet pump instead after opening this.

    They last hj100s we had was installed by my grandfather and lasted 30 years in daily use. Even then it was just the start capacator that failed. The pump impeller/ mechanism is sound.

    These booster pumps look like they are built to self destruct in 5 years due to the thin/ brittle diffusers. Hence if you dont have to have one I would not install one.

    Unless you want future work...

    Anyone have thoughts on plastic vs galvanized plumbing for pumps and the diffuser part numbers?
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2020
  14. ballvalve

    ballvalve General Engineering Contractor

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    The diffusers should last a very long time. like 20 years +. Mine are 25 years old. Unless they freeze. Perhaps some debris came in through the inlet, or the short cycling broke a few. Every one hates galvanized pipe except when you need a lot of physical strength to support something. IF you ever find parts for that pump you could just as well buy another Myers for the cost of the parts. And never buy a Flotek tank, bad mojo. Get a Waterworker or good diaphragm type. I use a plain tank and give it some compressed air every month. Life dictated by the steel. You could use that flotec tank as a plain tank if you removed the bag from the inside and cleaned it out. But the old sears tanks were the same and not galvanized or painted inside and changing the bag was the most disgusting experience one could have in life.
     
  15. valveman

    valveman Cary Austin Staff Member

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    If the impellers came apart that was your entire problem, not the kind of pump. The jet pump has exactly the same kind of impeller as the booster pump, it just has 1 larger instead of 17 smaller ones. The jet nozzle acts as a doubler for the pressure whereas the multistage just adds more with each stage. Those are the same impellers they use in the submersible pumps. Heat from zero flow will melt them. But the splined shaft
    can also just twist the hubs off the impellers from cycling too much. Cycling usually gets the motor first, but not always.
     
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