Booster pump question

Users who are viewing this thread

wileydog

New Member
Messages
12
Reaction score
0
Points
1
Location
Texas
Moving this to the right forum....

So, a while back, this group helped me with a submersible/cistern pump solution to a home I bought with existing line through a water easement. The guidance worked great, but I was having water leakage issues with the cistern tank and water line. I converted the cistern to a pumphouse and installed a booster pump, but still have water line issues from the pumphouse to the meter (there is a small pressure leak in the line)....with neighbors not wanting me to dig their yard even though it is on a legal easement. I am going to relocate the meter to my drive entrance which is part of my deed....no idea why it was not installed that way in the first place. Yes, a pricy solution, but I get full control and won't have to deal with unpleasant neighbors....and the current meter is a pretty good drive going down the road.....

So here are the facts:

TAP is 3/4 inch with 90 PSI at meter and around 50 gpm, verified by the water company yesterday. Length of water line in total is 2,500 ft. Elevation is 189 feet. I want to harvest the booster in the converted cistern which is a Goulds 1HP 10GPM (10GB10). I plan to use HDPE, either 1.5 inch the whole way or 1.5 to the booster and 1.25 from there to the house. I will have to add both water line and power. Frost line here is about 18 inches.

I originally thought to put the pump at about where the meter provides around 50 psi, roughly half way. Where it is currently operating, the suction is about 56PSI after about a 700 foot run in 1 inch PVC. It then is connected to the booster (at the old cistern) that pushed the water another 700 feet (1 inch PVC) (total run is 1,400 feet in 1 inch PVC) and about a 100 foot elevation (from the booster/cistern...total elevation from existing meter is 158 feet). I am using a CSV1A with 40/60 switch and 40 gallon tank, it has a backpressure of about 138 PSI and can do 60 PSI through the CSV all day long. CSV1A and pressure tank located at house in crawl space.

If I locate the relocated booster at about the same elevation with either 1.5 or 1.25 HDPE....will I get the same performance? Main concern is the expected back pressure at the house with the longer line run (adding 1,000 feet and a little more elevation).....which I think is offset by lower friction loss using the larger pipe. My current plan is to run the line from the meter to about 1,500 feet, then connecting the booster and running the last 1,000. At that location, with 1.5 pipe, I should be getting about 45 PSI (40 if I use 1.25 pipe)...and have about a 90 foot elevation still to go up to the house.

What would be the backpressure if I install like this? Would it be the same as I already get (138 PSI)?


Thanks!!!!
 

Valveman

Cary Austin
Staff member
Messages
14,633
Reaction score
1,303
Points
113
Location
Lubbock, Texas
Website
cyclestopvalves.com
I'm confused. But the 10GB10 can only build 138 PSI max. Whatever pressure is on the suction side will add to that and become the back pressure from the CSV. The higher in elevation you install the pump the less suction pressure it will have. But the higher in elevation you install the pump the less discharge pressure you will loose. I think the back pressure should be the same either way.
 

Reach4

Well-Known Member
Messages
38,892
Reaction score
4,434
Points
113
Location
IL
I originally thought to put the pump at about where the meter provides around 50 psi, roughly half way. Where it is currently operating, the suction is about 56PSI after about a 700 foot run in 1 inch PVC. It then is connected to the booster (at the old cistern) that pushed the water another 700 feet (1 inch PVC) (total run is 1,400 feet in 1 inch PVC) and about a 100 foot elevation (from the booster/cistern...total elevation from existing meter is 158 feet). I am using a CSV1A with 40/60 switch and 40 gallon tank, it has a backpressure of about 138 PSI and can do 60 PSI through the CSV all day long. CSV1A and pressure tank located at house in crawl space.
Rather than pure static pressures, I suggest that you also try to measure, or compute, pressures at some flow rate, such as 10 or 7 gpm.
 

wileydog

New Member
Messages
12
Reaction score
0
Points
1
Location
Texas
I'm confused. But the 10GB10 can only build 138 PSI max. Whatever pressure is on the suction side will add to that and become the back pressure from the CSV. The higher in elevation you install the pump the less suction pressure it will have. But the higher in elevation you install the pump the less discharge pressure you will loose. I think the back pressure should be the same either way.
OK,

At the current location, which I am relocating to get off the utilities easement, from meter to house is a 1,400 foot run of 1 inch PVC with a meter pressure of 90 psi and total elevation of 158 feet (from meter to house). The pump is connected at 700 feet, right in the middle of the run. At that distance, there is still a 100 foot elevation to the house. Currently, with the CSV, I am seeing 138 psi back pressure and about 55 psi to the house with a 40 gallon pressure tank.

I am moving the meter and water line to the new location, which will now require a 2,500 foot run and total of 189 elevation. I will use 1.25 inch PVC (can't source HDPE around here). Same meter, just moved to my property (3/4 inch, 90psi, greater that 50gpm from the city). I thought that I could set the new pump at about 1,000 feet from the house....which woule be about 1,500 feet from the meter. At that distance, it will have about the same elevation from pump to the house as the previous location....about 100 feet.

I think I am calculating correctly and showing that even though I am using a longer line run and higher elevation, the reduced friction loss with the 1.25 pipe results in a lower total head. I will assume the back pressure will be the same either way though.

Thanks, Valveman, you were the one who responded to my earlier questions a couple years ago....so appreciate your taking the time once again!
 

Valveman

Cary Austin
Staff member
Messages
14,633
Reaction score
1,303
Points
113
Location
Lubbock, Texas
Website
cyclestopvalves.com
If you move the pump to the house location along with the tank, the back pressure from the pump will only be seen in the few inces between the pump and the CSV.

Multistage booster and PK1A.jpg
 

wileydog

New Member
Messages
12
Reaction score
0
Points
1
Location
Texas
There is not enough meter pressure to get water all the way to the house, that is why I was going to locate it about the same elevation where the existing meter line has it. I will pull the pump from that location and move it to the new line once I get it all trenched in.
 

wileydog

New Member
Messages
12
Reaction score
0
Points
1
Location
Texas
Still, only the pipe between the pump and CSV will see backpressure.

View attachment 95635
ah, so move the tank and csv down to where I relocate the pump. would only need teh pressure needed to get up the hill/overcome the friction plus desired psi (60). I think I get it. Would I need a bigger pressure tank, or can I use the one that I have (40 gallon)?
 

wileydog

New Member
Messages
12
Reaction score
0
Points
1
Location
Texas
If I relocate the pressure tank/switch to the pumphouse location, looks like I would need 100 psi (50 psi to get up to the house and 50 psi for house service). If I kept the current tank (40 gallons), what would I set the switch to? It is 60/40 now.
 

wileydog

New Member
Messages
12
Reaction score
0
Points
1
Location
Texas
Rather than pure static pressures, I suggest that you also try to measure, or compute, pressures at some flow rate, such as 10 or 7 gpm.
If I'm doing it right, I am using 10 gpm as that is what the pump is rated for. I used that to get the friction loss, etc...
 

Reach4

Well-Known Member
Messages
38,892
Reaction score
4,434
Points
113
Location
IL
If I relocate the pressure tank/switch to the pumphouse location, looks like I would need 100 psi (50 psi to get up to the house and 50 psi for house service). If I kept the current tank (40 gallons), what would I set the switch to? It is 60/40 now.
If you move the pressure switch and pressure tank half way down the hill, you would want bigger pipe between the pump+switch+tank and the house. Pressure tank and switch at the house is best. That reduces the pressure changes at the house.
 

Valveman

Cary Austin
Staff member
Messages
14,633
Reaction score
1,303
Points
113
Location
Lubbock, Texas
Website
cyclestopvalves.com
If I relocate the pressure tank/switch to the pumphouse location, looks like I would need 100 psi (50 psi to get up to the house and 50 psi for house service). If I kept the current tank (40 gallons), what would I set the switch to? It is 60/40 now.
It won't make any difference in leaving the pressure tank at the top of the hill and operating at 40/60 pressure or moving it downhill and operating at 100/120 except for the back pressure between the pump and CSV. But at 100/120 a 40 gallon tank only holds 6 gallons of water compared to holding 12 gallons at 40/60 pressure. However, 6 gallons drawdown is plenty when using a CSV. The pipe size should not be a problem. Also, when using a CSV the friction loss is much less as the flow rate is only the amount you are using at any given time, not the full amount the pump can produce.
 

wileydog

New Member
Messages
12
Reaction score
0
Points
1
Location
Texas
It won't make any difference in leaving the pressure tank at the top of the hill and operating at 40/60 pressure or moving it downhill and operating at 100/120 except for the back pressure between the pump and CSV. But at 100/120 a 40 gallon tank only holds 6 gallons of water compared to holding 12 gallons at 40/60 pressure. However, 6 gallons drawdown is plenty when using a CSV. The pipe size should not be a problem. Also, when using a CSV the friction loss is much less as the flow rate is only the amount you are using at any given time, not the full amount the pump can produce.
Again, thanks for the feedback! I have learned allot on water management since I originally posted to this forum a couple years ago, think I got it figured out with a much better understanding on what I am doing this time. I will leave the CSV at the house; the PVC can handle the pressure.

Again, very much appreciate the responses!
 
Top
Hey, wait a minute.

This is awkward, but...

It looks like you're using an ad blocker. We get it, but (1) terrylove.com can't live without ads, and (2) ad blockers can cause issues with videos and comments. If you'd like to support the site, please allow ads.

If any particular ad is your REASON for blocking ads, please let us know. We might be able to do something about it. Thanks.
I've Disabled AdBlock    No Thanks