Need to lower toilet flange Which Reamer is best?

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Charlie Bosco

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So my home was built in 1974. It seems that the distance from the toilet flange was 14" back then. Also when I moved in I replace the existing toilet immediately with a cheapo Glacier Bay just because the old one was so gross.. For whatever reason then old toilet sat flush on the floor tile. But the new toilet does not and I had to throw some temporary shims under it till I got around to getting a GOOD toilet and lowering the floor flange. Not sure why the original one fit flush to the floor and the other does not. I thought the space from the outlet to the floor flange was the same for all toilets. Regardless, I dont care since I have to lower the flange anyway. Its obviously high and I am on a slab.

Once I cut the flange, I see there are a few different reaming tools to remove the remaining sleeve from the old flange. I want this job to be easy and done. even if I have to by a $100 cutting bit for a one time use. I am ok with that. So there is the Clean Ream Extreme by Reed (expensive) and a Jones Ram Bit (cheap)

EDIT - I just realized I dont know what type of flange i am working with.. If its inside the main drain pipe or over the main drain pipe.. I feel that its going to need a different bit if its an outside mount..

Any experience with either?

Lastly.. I plan to install a Toto Ultramax II. Is there anything I can do to thats easy other than jackhammering the floor to move the toilet back 2 inches? This flange is 14" from the wall. If not the Ultramax tank is so low it may not be a big deal to live with it.

toilet.jpg
 
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Terry

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I prefer the Reed cutter, have used both, and they both work.

reed-pipe-reamer-2.jpg


I would not break up the floor for changing the 14" rough to 12"
Also, would have expected the new toilet to sit over the flange. You can dry set first to see if it works with the flange, and if it isn't working with wax, consider that the issue. Some of the non-wax are too high, and wax with horn can be a problem too.

The shutoff at the wall with the corrugated supply needs to be replaced.

shutoff_corragated_replace.jpg


pipe-panama-01.jpg


pipe-panama-02.jpg


 
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Charlie Bosco

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I prefer the Reed cutter, have used both, and they both work.

reed-pipe-reamer-2.jpg


I would not break up the floor for changing the 14" rough to 12"
Also, would have expected the new toilet to sit over the flange. You can dry set first to see if it works with the flange, and if it isn't working with wax, consider that the issue. Some of the non-wax are too high, and wax with horn can be a problem too.

The shutoff at the wall with the corrugated supply needs to be replaced.

shutoff_corragated_replace.jpg
Wow thanks for the quick reply Terry.. sounds like a good plan to test fit the new toilet before determining I need to replace the flange.. I will also need to determine if my flange was inserted onto the floor Pipe or was fit over it. That will change what reaming bit I need I guess..
 

jadnashua

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If you want to move the toilet back 2", then one of the Toto toilets that use their UniFit adapter would work for you. They're more expensive than the one you've chosen, though, and the 14" UniFit adapter adds to that (it comes with a 12" one, and no, you don't get credit for swapping it for a 14" one).
 

Charlie Bosco

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So my Toto is on order and here is what I am working with.. As I said the original toilet sat on this flange no issue.. The new Glacier Bay crapper was resting on the flange hard enough to squeeze out all but a thin covering of wax. So is it possible the Home Depot toilet was manufactured wrong? I thought the exit of all toilets was the same height off the floor. What is the spec exit height of the Toto Ultramax II?

In this photo I realize while it looks like an inch its only like a 1/2 inch too high assuming the plastic flange is sitting on the floor.

Leads me to believe Terry and do a test fit before reaming out the flange. Also included the last pic to confirm that I do in fact have a 4" flange that is inserted into 4" pipe. Therefore I would use the 4" reamer for inside pipe. Then I assume any push fit flange would make this an easy fix?

height.jpg
Width.jpg
 

Reach4

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I don't know that they make a reamer for that. It is possible.

There are Youtube videos of people removing such a closet flange with careful use of a saw and heat and prying..

I think I might take out the existing closet bolts. Then use a belt sander, with a course belt, to reduce the high-side height a lot. Then put on a repair flange to hold the closet bolts. If patient, you could use a rasp instead of the belt sander.
 
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Jeff H Young

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If that is as you say a 4 inch spigot flange basically 4 inch pipe size . if you cut that flange down lower a 3 inch flange (with hub) will glue right inside a 4inch pipe sometimes a little sloppy. but with abs it works pretty much the outside hub of a 3 inch fitting will fit in a 4 inch pipe like I said usually a little sloppy.
perhaps this helps
 

Reach4

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I suspect that is a 4 in. x 3 in. Closet Flange. The ID of the tail would fit over 3 inch PVC, and the outside of the tail (as is this case) glued into a 4-inch pipe. The ID would be 3.50 inches.

A 4 inch spigot flange would glue into a hub or coupling, but the photo does not look like that to me.
 

Reach4

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Since that old flange would fit over a 3 inch pipe, it seems to me that you could demolish the existing flange down to floor level or below, depending on what it takes to make your new closet flange sit at the right level.. Then dress the edge, and glue in a 3 inch spigot closet flange.

BUT wait... why is the old glued closet flange tilted? The pipe below may not be plumb. In that case, if the pipe below is straight enough, a 4 inch PushTite flange might give a little bit of tilt in the right direction.
The Sioux Chief 886-GP (or 886-GA) has the bigger flaps, and looks like it could tilt more readily. I am not a pro, and I have no relevant experience. Since with PushTite you are not gluing, you could use either the PVC or ABS versions.

This video shows one way of getting the old flange out, leaving you with a 4 inch pipe.

 

Jeff H Young

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I think it looks like a 4 inch spigot and a 4x3 will glue inside of that .
I did look at the charlotte fitting book and an 800s looks like a good choice but I am guessing a bit. I would avoid the 800 and go 800s if you want a little more meat to insure a longer glue joint glue a coupling with small pup in the ring or even part of a coupling. or just hog out the piece that's glued in what ever is easiest
 

Jeff H Young

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Several Ideas Charlie take your pick true that the twist and shout orb twist and seal might be able to level up better. let us know how you do it you got a lot of advice now let us know your experience /results
 

Charlie Bosco

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Thanks for all the great replies here.. I have decided to get this bit in 4" if I need to remove the flange.. I'll dremel off the saddle and use this bit to clear the rest.

I can confirm the pipe is in fact a 4" I would like to go with a slip in flange. Any brand recommendations? Also I want to confirm the flange in "NORMAL" installs rests flat on TOP of the final flooring. Not flush with.
 

wwhitney

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I can confirm the pipe is in fact a 4"
Can you confirm the ID of the current assembly at the region where there's some purple primer, seen in the your last photo just to the left and below the number 3 on the tape measure? [I only describe it that way as the purple primer is a landmark at the elevation of interest.]

Cheers, Wayne
 

Charlie Bosco

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Can you confirm the ID of the current assembly at the region where there's some purple primer, seen in the your last photo just to the left and below the number 3 on the tape measure? [I only describe it that way as the purple primer is a landmark at the elevation of interest.]

Cheers, Wayne
I just noticed the primer.. so it appears when they had the flange upside down applying primer to the outside wall some ran down the inside wall. Its inserted into a 4" pipe. The photo is a bit deceiving. The top widest portion of the "funnel" is almost exactly at 4" then reduces as it tapers down to what appears to be about 3" as it enters the 4" pipe. So Inside diameter of the part with primer is 3"
I hope that explains it..
 

Reach4

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Cut a piece of light cardboard, such as they use for soda pop cases, 3.25 inches wide. Does that go through the hole easily, or does it not?

I expect you can find other ways to measure that ID. Some food cans are just under 3 inches outside of the rim crimp. I have a vitamin pill bottle that is about 3.45 inches OD. Don't drop your measuring tool.
 
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Charlie Bosco

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Cut a piece of light cardboard, such as they use for soda pop cases, 3.25 inches wide. Does that go through the hole easily, or does it not?

I expect you can find other ways to measure that ID. Some food cans are just under 3 inches outside of the rim crimp. I have a vitamin pill bottle that is about 3.45 inches OD. Don't drop your measuring tool.
Yep, I need to get exact.. I am now thinking the Socket saver bit I am looking at is too big.. I have a compass circle drawing tool. I use that as an inside caliper..

 

Jeff H Young

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I take my saws all on a about a 45 degree angle and cut around it till the flange comes off and then figure out the ID . kinda hard to explain every possibility either the ring needs to be removed or it doesn't you'll have to figure that out now I'm thinking an inside 3 inch might work
 

Charlie Bosco

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I take my saws all on a about a 45 degree angle and cut around it till the flange comes off and then figure out the ID . kinda hard to explain every possibility either the ring needs to be removed or it dosent youll have to figure that out now im thinking an inside 3 inch might work
Thanks. I am just trying to have everything on hand for when my Toto comes in. I don't want to have to put old toilet back while I get more parts or tools. I did that quick pull to take photos then put it back. Who knows. A dry fit with the Toto may work fine. Have no idea.

Another question. Do you like or successfully use any of those reusable non wax seals? They really make it easy to yank a toilet. The wax seal is hands down the worst part of a toilet swap.
 

Jeff H Young

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Thanks. I am just trying to have everything on hand for when my Toto comes in. I don't want to have to put old toilet back while I get more parts or tools. I did that quick pull to take photos then put it back. Who knows. A dry fit with the Toto may work fine. Have no idea.

Another question. Do you like or successfully use any of those reusable non wax seals? They really make it easy to yank a toilet. The wax seal is hands down the worst part of a toilet swap.
No Charlie I haven't used those type of bowl seals. I also haven't done a many unifits It might not be a problem I was thinking regular toilet, the unifit could be forgiving of a high flange maybe some one can let you know hopefully they have clearance. Now I understand you aren't in a hurry because you haven't got new toilet yet
 
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