Kohler toilet--fill tube pops out of canister

Discussion in 'Toilet Forum discussions' started by JSK, Sep 21, 2016.

  1. JSK

    JSK New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2016
    Location:
    Texas
    HELP! We have several Kohler toilets--they are all about 4 years old now. Shortly after moving into our home we have had the issue of the fill tube popping out of the canister. We have had several plumbers come, usually they just try to stick it back in with some goop. We replaced the entire mechanism in one of our toilets, but still continue to find any one of the toilets with very little water and, then we take the tank top off to YET AGAIN discover that the fill tube is not inside the canister. Please help...

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    photo added by Terry Love
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 21, 2016
  2. wjcandee

    wjcandee Wise One

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2012
    Location:
    New York, NY
    Assuming that you have the setup shown in Terry's photo, and assuming that you're talking about the hose from the fill valve "popping out" of where it is inserted into the canister, and the hose is presently how it is shown in Terry's photo, I have one idea that is probably more than you want to deal with but is cheaper than a plumber.

    When you install a Korky 528MP fill valve, Korky instructs you to use the little clips and such that come in their box to hook the refill hose up differently than shown in Terrys photo. It is at 1:37 in the youtube video below. Apparently, that works, and nothing is going to pop out. The water sprays into the canister instead of down the "stopper" of the canister.

    You could just swap out the fill valves for Korky 528MPs, which would work perfectly in your toilet, and you would be done with the issue. They are about $12 each. It will take a first-timer probably 15 minutes to do the first one, reading the instructions and watching the video, and 5 minutes a piece on the next 3.

    One obvious thought: make sure there is enough slack in the refill hose (and it tilts up enough) to clear the side of the canister when it rises during the flush, so that the canister doesn't dislodge the hose. Push down on the flush handle and see how high the canister rises and make sure the refill hose is clear of it. It shouldn't even be close, but I'm just spitballing ideas.

    Video:



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    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 22, 2016
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  4. JSK

    JSK New Member

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    This is a great recommendation!! All of your assumptions were correct. But just for clarity... Are you saying to replace my fill valve with he Korky fill valve, or just use the included Korky hose and clip with my current Kohler fill valve?? I am sure it would depend on the tube size, but my thought it that they are are pretty close to the same??
    Your response did bring up another question.... So, the water doesn't HAVE to go down the stopper (small hole)? It can go directly into the larger part of the canister? Why have the stopper in the first place? I saw lots of 'fixes' last night for people who did not have the stopper version, they just had an open pipe that the hose was just placed into--they used some sort of metal clip that attached the hose to the pipe? Is that also an option for me to just bypass the stopper and go directly into the larger part of the canister? OR is my hose too small to use that metal clip?
    I did check the rise of the canister, and that is not the issue..... I 'think' some of the issue might be that my boys tend to use a 'heavy handed quick flush', and perhaps that is part of what causes that tube to pop out of the small hole?
     
  5. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2013
    Location:
    IL
    You can probably buy a refill tube locally, and that would come with a clip. That would be cheaper than buying a refill valve to get a clip.

    I have not seen the flush tower, but I suspect a clip could work. The clip that came with my Toto Vespin 2 rusted through, and I attached the remaining part of the clip to the overflow tube with a nylon tie wrap. I wonder if you could put a tie wrap around the black plastic, one around the white, and use a third to ties those two together. Then tighten the pieces as appropriate.
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2016
  6. wjcandee

    wjcandee Wise One

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    Apr 27, 2012
    Location:
    New York, NY
    Reach4, the Korky solution uses two clips, actually. One is the regular clip, and the other is kind of an "adapter" for the canister flush. The poster could probably rig something up that was creative, of course. But I figure if the plumber has been out a few times, the cost of a couple of the valves, including the special Korky adapter, would be far less than a service call. If they are really creative, they might buy the valve and see if they can just use the tube and clips and save the valves for later, but why not use the great Korky as long as you are at it...

    JSK: The Kohler valve is just a Fluidmaster 400A; you could I guess use the hose and clips if they fit.

    Most people don't have a flush valve with a canister or the stopper thingy. That's a Kohler thing. American Standard had a different version flush tower for a while, but they dumped it because their version was super-problematic. (In fact, they effectively recalled it, sending out a new type of flush valve to all registered owners. For most owners, replacing a flush valve (as opposed to the fill valve) is a more-involved project than they want to do, because it involves removing the tank, which replacing the fill valve does not. Most toilets still use a version of the "flapper" on the flush valve, which has been around for decades, and it's cheap and generally-reliable and easy to replace.

    You can test whether water that is poured into the outer part of the canister indeed goes into the bowl. I would certainly do so before embarking on this. Just take a measuring cup of water and pour it in there and see if water comes out in the bowl. If you're really creative or if it isn't obvious, try it with a small amount of food coloring.

    As to "why"? Kohler does a lot of engineering, in my view, that doesn't improve much, but does give them a basis to market that their product is "different". The Korky people probably just figured out that it didn't have to be like that, and engineered a solution. I notice that on the Mansfield toilet, which has a different style flush tower, they just shove the hose into the flush tower, but for the Kohler, they created that little adapter. Now there is (I hope) some smart engineering...

    Let us know how it goes.
     
  7. JSK

    JSK New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2016
    Location:
    Texas

    That is a very interesting suggestion....... Something I could quickly try! Thanks!
     
  8. JSK

    JSK New Member

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    Sep 21, 2016
    Location:
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    So, I before your response, I called around about getting the Kohler brand 'clip'. No one had it , but local plumbing store suggested I call Kohler and ask them for it and perhaps they'd even send it for free..... Anyway, I did call and the woman I spoke to said that I could not use a clip in that way (although I disagree because I did what you said and let the water just run into the larger tube of the canister (not the tower part) and it worked fine to fill the toilet).... The woman from Kohler said what I needed where their 'new' towers that sit inside the canister tube. She said that they hold the fill tubes better. She explained to me how to twist and pull out the towers I have now and then replace them with the new ones. They were pretty cheap too at $8.40 each.
    nister Repair Kit GP1229656
    I am hopeful that they will work! And if not, I'll be looking back at these wonderful suggestions and hopefully work out a solution.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 25, 2016
  9. wjcandee

    wjcandee Wise One

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    Apr 27, 2012
    Location:
    New York, NY
    Very interesting! Let us know how it works out with the new tower!
     
  10. luv2tinker

    luv2tinker New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2017
    Location:
    Fairfax, VA
    An easy & inexpensive fix to prevent the fill hose from popping out is to grab 3 zip ties. Install one zip tie to the rubber hose, one the fill valve canister, and the third between the two. The flaring on the fill valve will prevent its zip tie from slipping off.
     
    Kevin1257 likes this.
  11. Kevin1257

    Kevin1257 New Member

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    Jun 17, 2017
    Location:
    Columbia, SC
    This worked perfectly! So easy!
     
  12. DIYBrian

    DIYBrian New Member

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    Nov 6, 2017
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    This suggestion fixed the problem in minutes. Amazing how easy it was and was able to do it with two zip ties. Wish I'd found your advice a long time ago. Thanks.
     
  13. Eric Warheit

    Eric Warheit New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2018
    Location:
    Dallas, TX
    This worked!

    This is what I did for those who don't want to figure it out
    1 Loosely put a tie around the neck of the canister receptacle - "neck-tie"
    2 Thread a "connector tie" through the "neck-tie"
    3 Loosely put a tie around the hose - "hose-tie"
    4 Thread the "connector tie" through the "hose-tie"
    5 Tighten the ties around the neck and hose.
    6 Close and tighten the "connector tie" until the tension/length keeps the hose fully nested within the canister receptacle.

    I also looped a rubber band around the hose to prevent the tie from sliding down the hose. I don't know if that will be effective though. :)

    Thanks again for the zip tie idea! No more flooding bathroom! No more frustrated wife! And no money spent. :D
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2018
  14. BuckNut_45

    BuckNut_45 New Member

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    Oct 31, 2018
    Location:
    NE Ohio
    Would love to see a picture of this method - I think I get it but not 100% sure
     
  15. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

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    Occupation:
    Retired Systems engineer for defense industry.
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    New England
    My gripe with Kohler is that they are infected with the NIH virus (not invented here). They regularly insist on trying to improve on things that everyone else finds work just fine. This means, once in awhile, you may get a cutting edge product, but will regularly get one that is harder to fix, if it doesn't, or like most things, eventually wears out and needs parts...with them changing things so often, who knows what version you have or what will work. As a result, most places don't carry all that many repair parts since they don't fit many models. IMHO, they think they're smarter than the rest of the world, which rarely is true.
     
  16. Robert Koch

    Robert Koch New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2019
    Location:
    St. Louis
    I had the same problem with the fill hose coming loose. If you remove the hose from the fill tube you may notice that it is smaller where it is is inserted in the tube. I simply cut off the end 1 inch then reinserted the hose. It now stays in place. I think with time, the hose diameter shrinks so it comes loose so this may not be a permanent solution, but certainly easier than zip ties. This would have been a good place for a plastic elbow rather than bending the tubing.
     
  17. MCRinCA

    MCRinCA New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2018
    Location:
    SoCal
    Cutting the hose end to get a wider diameter was a great suggestion and does work as I tried it but I’d like to add to it. I used one side of my needle nose pliers and drove it into the freshly cut end of the hose to widen it up for an even snugger fit. You can use any solid object slightly larger than the inside hose diameter or something tapered like the needle nose. I got a super snug fit and the hose is now staying in place. Simple, effective solution!
     
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