Help Selecting a Submersible Pump for 360' Well

[Zane Bridgers]

Thanks so much Valveman! The pitless adapter has arrived so I'm planning to drop the pump this week.

I've read a few more of your posts - sounds like no teflon or pipe dope on stainless to pvc, just crank til it pops a few times. No check valves other than that inside the pump.

I got a nice ratcheting crimp tool with interchangeable dies. I'm curious which you would recommend. There's a few insulated dies, and then non-insulated terminal, open barrel, and open barrel & D-Sub v3.5, I was planning to just use non-insulated terminal, and then solder after crimping and before shrink wrap.

To test the pump and motor before dropping it, I planned to submerge it in a big tote tank and power it on via the controller for just a second or two, Not sure if there is a more rigorous test.

I wanted to grease the splines because I had read about sand potentially getting in them. All I can find locally in terms of food grade grease is called faucet grease and is supposed to be high heat and waterproof. Since the splines are right at the water intake I'd prefer to use something food grade or nothing.

I got a prefab underground concrete well house delivered today where the casing comes up inside and there's a manhole cover on top to service the pump. I planned to put the pitless up about a foot off the floor if that sounds about right. Then drill a second hole 1' above that for the well wire. Are there any tricks to lining up the pitless and getting it to engage? I figure someone can look through the adapter to figure out when it's at the right level and then a bunch of wiggling/trial and error to get it to engage. I planned to run a short section of cable from around the pitless to the well seal as a backup, but assume this is probably never done by pros.

Once everything is in place, is there any problem with just flipping the breaker to test it out before plumbing in the tank/csv and pressure switch?

I'm excited to finally make this happen. I'll post up some photos of the rig. I'm confident it will do the job.

 

[Valveman]

With a pitless adapter you want the casing to extend above grade by 12"-18". They make a pitless cap to fit the top of the casing that will have a vent and a conduit connection for the wire. You don't want to drill a hole in the casing for the wire, and you really need the casing to extend above grade. With a concrete well house done that way it sounds like you are making a vault? That vault will need to be water tight if you do not extend the casing above ground. Vaults with below grade casing is not legal in many states.

Normally the casing extends above grade and is next to the vault. Only the line from the pitless comes into the vault for the controls like the tank and CSV.

 

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[Reach4]

I wanted to grease the splines because I had read about sand potentially getting in them. All I can find locally in terms of food grade grease is called faucet grease and is supposed to be high heat and waterproof. Since the splines are right at the water intake I'd prefer to use something food grade or nothing.

I have no opinion on whether you should grease your splines. I am commenting on your quest for a food grade grease available locally.

https://www.danco.com/product/12-oz-waterproof-grease/ is NSF 61 approved and meets or exceeds the requirements of FDA regulation 21. Often available locally.

If ordering, I would get a 5.3 ounce tube of Molykote 111. I use a light coating whenever I handle a rubber seal including the o-rings on my whole house filters. A big tube like that will last for years and years, although a 1/2 ounce tube may last you for a good while too.

I had my well pit demolished, my casing extended above ground with welding, and a pitless adapter installed. Because I had a 4 inch steel casing, I got a special clear way pitless that does not reduce the diameter. The alternative would have been to get an adapter with a 5 inch casing made to go above the 4 inch and then I could have used the trapezoid style pitless. My concern with that was whether the pitless might end up higher than the frost line that way.

 

[Valveman]

Don't worry about greasing the splines. If you have enough sand that greasing the splines is necessary, you will have other problems long before the spline gives out.

 

[Zane Bridgers]

The well house we got is actually from a company that manufactures concrete septic tanks. The bottom half is the same form with a different top, and they are sealed in the middle with a sort of tar sealing strip. As I understand, they are watertight, except for the whole in the top and bottom where the casing comes through. The standard practice is to cut the casing a few inches below the "vault" ceiling, directly under the manhole cover. Still easy for a truck to hoist the pump out, but contained inside the well house. I assume it passes code otherwise they'd change their design. But New Mexico is borderline third world so who knows.

I already went out a bought a tiny jar of "faucet grease". It's NSF and says high heat - used on valves etc. for potable water. I can return it, but I figure I might as well dab a bit on. There are definitely better options online, but I want to move forward. I may get a tube for future use though.

I was thinking the Franklin motor came with nuts to crank down the wet end. Upon closer inspection, it looks like they are what hold the motor together and I'll need to go buy the hardware. Do you guys know what the threads are? Are there torque specs or just crank it good?

 

[Reach4]

The standard practice is to cut the casing a few inches below the "vault" ceiling, directly under the manhole cover.

That would make it hard to get a man through the manhole, wouldn't it?

 

[Valveman]

The nuts usually come with the pump end, not the motor. They should be Stainless Steel. 5/16 SAE fine thread if I remember correctly. Pull them down evenly, one side then the other, like a car tire. Can't get a torque wrench in there, so just quit before you twist them off. LOL. They need to be tight but not extra tight.

 

[Zane Bridgers]

Ahhh that makes more sense. The pump box wasn't sealed super well so they may have fallen out. Thanks so much for those specs - I'll bring the motor to double check the threads. I got lock washers, but maybe I'll just get lock nuts instead and put a dot of loctite on there too.

Here's a photo of the well house/vault to clarify. There's a separate hatch to drop in the tank and climb down.

 

[Reach4]

Here's a photo of the well house/vault to clarify.

Doesn't seem likely that you will have a ground water problem getting into the pit.

 

[Valveman]

Lock washers would need to be Stainless Steel as well, but aren't needed. The base of the pump is usually a little springy and acts like a lock washer. Also don't need locktite. Never seen the nuts come loose on their own.

 

[Zane Bridgers]

Ok, good to know. I cranked it down solid with a little faucet grease on the splines since I had it.

So I tested the pump and motor in a big tote tank with one 20' section of PVC attached. It powered on nicely, but the water took a good 3-4 seconds to climb up out of the 20' pipe. I imagined I'd see a geyser but was a little underwhelmed. I assume that is because of the impeller stack design being oriented towards super high torque and low flow since the pump is designed for a 500' head. Is this normal? I want to make sure before we drop it 440'!

 

[Valveman]

Measure it in a bucket. But if the pipe holds 2 gallons it fills in 2/10s of a minute using a 10 gpm pump.

 

[Zane Bridgers]

Yeah ok of course! That makes sense. I'm seeing that 1-1/4 holds 0.0530 Gallons/ft x 20 = 1.06 gallons. 1/10 of 60 seconds = 6 seconds which seems just about right for the time it took to fill the pipe, a little quicker since there is no head. Thanks for that!

One more thing came up. I'm putting a stainless coupling on one side of each pipe ahead of time because it's an easy point of attachment. I threaded a test coupling on really tight with a 2' pipe wrench and pipe vice. The PVC is just shy of half way through the coupling and clearly the stainless cut some new threads, but it didn't pop. I assume you want it to pop once both sections of pipe are in and butting together. Is that right? Is there any concern of damaging the PVC by torquing too hard. A 2' pipe wrench just about maxed out seems like a hell of a lot of torque on plastic threads, but I have no reference.

 

[Valveman]

Doesn't have to pop. Tight enough.

 

[Zane Bridgers]

Haha I love it. Thanks so much!

I'll crank em to the german standard of good n' tight.

 

[Zane Bridgers]

Seems like no one solders the crimps because the insulation butts right up against them. Is that right? Kind of one or the other, seems most everyone in the industry crimps.

Had a hair brained idea last night to use 150' of left over 1" poly from the house water line to shield the pump wire for the first 150' because the double jacketed tray cable I got was pictured as flat but they sent round. On second thought, the poly is pretty stiff and has a memory, so would probably coil up and make the install a nightmare. Keeping it simple...

 

[Zane Bridgers]

I am very pleased to report we successfully dropped our well pump in last week and today hooked up power and pumped our first water. Thank you so much for all the help. There's no way we could have done it otherwise.

We actually hit bottom while dropping the pump because our driller said it was 40' deeper. We pulled out a section so the pump should now be sitting a nice 25' above the bottom.

The water started clear and then would turn brown, clear up for a while, turn brown. So on and so forth. I read elsewhere on the forum it will need a few thousand gallons pumped through to stabilize. We will run a garden hose directly off the pump for several hours and hopefully it will clear up.