Flange anchor bolt problem

[DIYOwner]

I had a handyman do bathroom remodel including new floor tile and new toilet.

The toilet installed was defective ( not his fault) so Kohler has sent a new toilet .
Now, when I removed the old toilet, I found that one flange bolt was spinning.
On inspection, it looks like he made a bad tile cut and so the bolt has no tile below ... it is hanging on air and he put it in place using a plastic washer.

Question --

Do I need to remove the flange put a base and out it back
Or
Can I use a nut on the flange to hold the bolt and then put toilet and another nut to hold the toilet ?

Measured -- the nut easily passes through the hole in toilet base.

 

[John Gayewski]

Take a picture

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Jeff H Young]

diy owner your not very clear?

 

[Terry]

I always bolt the closet bolts to the flange.

Just make sure that the closet flange is secured to the floor.
This is a strange picture, there is a flange below all of that, with some spacers and then a second flange over that one. Even though there are no visible screws in the picture, they are all below that, below the white spacers.

And this is how they normally look. Again, the closet bolts a secured to the flange.

 

[Jeff H Young]

that's how I do it, the only good way!

 

[DIYOwner]

Take a picture

Please find attached.

I have taken pictures of both the bolts ?

One, you will see has a white layer under the bolt -- that is the tile and the bolt is sitting on tile

The other one shows black in the hole . Here there is no base for the bolt to stand. I inserted a screw driver and it goes about 3" below . I can possibly pour a concrete mix through that tiny hole but apprehensive I might mess up .

 

[Terry]

As long as the bolts are held solidly, that's all that matters.
I would not fill the slots, they all have those slots.
It may be that you have a flange even lower down, that looks to be a repair flange that you have.

 

[Jeff H Young]

I'd put new bolts but otherwise your good.

 

[DIYOwner]

Thanks much for the help.

I followed the advice and installed the toilet.
There are no leaks, but the toilet is very slightly wobbling -- I don't feel if I sit but if I try to shake it (a bit violently), it wobbles side to side.

I gave a few turns with wrench, apprehensive to tighten the nuts because I heard overtightening breaks porcelain.

Wondering if I should use shims to stop that.

Floor is concrete so chance of water damage is minimal

 

[Jeff H Young]

shims and caulk and your good to go!

 

[Reach4]

I expect your wax is already messed up with that rocking. Pull the toilet. Remove old wax. Position the shims without wax. Lift the toilet. Drop the toilet onto new wax and shims.

 

[DIYOwner]

I expect your wax is already messed up with that rocking. Pull the toilet. Remove old wax. Position the shims without wax. Lift the toilet. Drop the toilet onto new wax and shims.

Thanks , but it rocked very little. Basically I tightened the nuts a few turns and then tried to rock and check . The wobble was like when a leg of a chair is uneven. I am hoping wax ring is ok

 

[Jadnashua]

The wax ring is NOT a spring...so, when the toilet rocks one direction, it compresses the wax, and when it rocks back the other way, it leaves a gap...that's why you want to locate where shims need to be so you can press the toilet in place and have a complete seal all around with no further movement. Now, that gap may not be very big, but sewer gasses don't care, and, if there's a clog, the moisture won't either. It may not leak much, but the safest thing is to pull it, determine where shims need to go, and then set it with new wax. When pressing it in place, use your body weight, not the nuts, then snug them up once it's solid on the floor.

The porcelain is strong, but it's not a spring, so applying pressure to seat the toilet is risky...it's brittle.

 

[DIYOwner]

So, I took the advice to remove and install again since I noticed a very minimal leak.
The install was much better this time (practice makes a man perfect ) -- there is no rocking, but there are two problems.

1) There is still a very minimal leak through the base (1 out of of 10 times flushed)

2) The closet bolt washer on one side got bent.

I am wondering if 2 is causing 1.
I read that I need to use the metal washer, on top of it plastic washer and then the nut.

Can I simply remove the nut and reinstall using the new washer or removing the nut breaks the wax seal ?

Toilet has not been used (and no hence no movement)

 

[Reach4]

1) There is still a very minimal leak through the base (1 out of of 10 times flushed)

That is bad. It may be that the pipe that takes stuff to the sewer needs to be cleaned out. If you pull the toilet again, make sure that the closet flange can take all an open garden hose can deliver for several minutes.

It may be that the toilet is defective if you used enough wax, and had the shims in place before dropping the toilet onto the wax.

Can I simply remove the nut and reinstall using the new washer or removing the nut breaks the wax seal ?

Any lifting of the toilet breaks the wax.

If the toilet itself is suspect. New toilets tend to work better than old toilets -- despite using less water. So don't invest a lot of time into an old toilet. If you do, you will feel invested, when you should be discarding it.

Note the distance from the center of the hole to the wall (not the shoe molding). This will usually be the same as the distance from the closet bolts to the wall. You will need to know this when buying a new toilet.

 

[DIYOwner]

That is bad. It may be that the pipe that takes stuff to the sewer needs to be cleaned out. If you pull the toilet again, make sure that the closet flange can take all an open garden hose can deliver for several minutes.

It may be that the toilet is defective if you used enough wax, and had the shims in place before dropping the toilet onto the wax.

Any lifting of the toilet breaks the wax.

If the toilet itself is suspect. New toilets tend to work better than old toilets -- despite using less water. So don't invest a lot of time into an old toilet. If you do, you will feel invested, when you should be discarding it.

Note the distance from the center of the hole to the wall (not the shoe molding). This will usually be the same as the distance from the closet bolts to the wall. You will need to know this when buying a new toilet.

Thanks much ! However, I think I was not clear. I am not planning to lift the toilet. Just take the nut off, put new washer and put the nut back.
It is a new Kohler toilet .

 

[Reach4]

I am not planning to lift the toilet. Just take the nut off, put new washer and put the nut back.

That does not call for new wax. The toilet will not spring up. But it also does not seem like it could help stop a leak.

What is possible is that you did not tighten the tank to the bowl sufficiently.

EDIT: I think the surface of your closet flange is below floor level. That would call for an extra-thick wax ring or two rings stacked.

You might be a good candidate for a waxless seal. Those are resilient, and can tolerate adding shims later. They also would allow you to lift and replace the toilet without new wax. With wax, it is important to have shims in place before dropping the toilet onto the wax. You can compress wax, but not de-compress wax. A waxless seal is resilient, and can both compress and de-compress. However wax has the greatest ability to conform to odd shapes.

Fluidmaster 7530 - BETTER THAN WAX™ Wax-Free Seal has pieces used according to depth needed.
https://www.fluidmaster.com/products/toilet/toilet-seals/7530-better-than-wax-wax-free-seal/

Korky 6000BP has pieces used according to depth needed.
https://www.korky.com/products/wax-free-gaskets/wax-free-toilet-seal-kit

If you used a waxless seal, don't worry about getting rid of all of the old wax. Just the bulk of it.