Water softener float valve stuck in up position

[bombay63]

I have 48000 grain Fleck 5600 SXT water softener about one year old. I see that after the BD cycle the float valve is stuck in up position. I also did not see water being drawn into softener during BD cycle since the water level in Brine tank never went down. During the BF cycle there is no water filled into the brine tank.

I float also does not move up and down when this happens. I tried to force it but it is stuck.

One thing I noticed is that if I disconnect the Brine fill tube from the Fleck controller the valve becomes unstuck and the float moves freely. Now if I start the cycle again it will be stuck.

Is the float assembly gone bad. I checked the fleck controller and water comes out correctly during BD and BF cycle.

Any pointers on where to start to debug.

 

[Bannerman]

Is the float assembly gone bad. I checked the fleck controller and water comes out correctly during BD and BF cycle.

The float and its valve are only safety devices to prevent overflow of the brine tank if there is a malfunction.

As you stated that water exits the controller during BD (brine draw), that indicates a malfunction with the control valve as BD should result in suction on the brine line so as to draw brine into the softener. Water should only exit under pressure during BF (brine fill).

Start by removing and cleaning the injector assembly as shown in the attached video.

There could also be an issue with one of the piston seals although at 1-year use would seem unlikely but is possible. Replacing a seal would require a seal and spacer rebuild kit.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[bombay63]

Cleaned injectors and everything as in video. It is same i.e water still comes out of brine tank connector tube during BD cycle. I even waited for 15 minutes to see if flow will stop and suction will start at anytime but no suction. Since the system is only a year old, it may be a good idea to just get a warranty replacement for the Controller.

 

[Bannerman]

The other thing to check before rebuilding the valve is drain flow.

Waiting 15 minutes will not change BD operation.

Water will slowly enter the valve during BD which will flow through the injector and through the resin bed, finally exiting to drain. The injector acts as a venturi which will create suction on the brine line to draw brine from the brine tank into the resin tank. If the drain line is blocked anywhere, then water will not properly flow through the injector but may instead exit the brine line.

Ensure the entire drain line has no kinks or is otherwise restricted. Remove the drain line from any fittings to ensure there is no blockage.

The highest flow rate to drain will occur during Backwash and Rapid Rinse. As your softener is a 48K grain unit, it will contain 1.5 cuft of resin within a 10" diameter tank so the highest drain flow rate will be 2.4 gpm. The flow rate to drain during BD will be less than 1 gpm and will be 0 gpm during BF.

 

[ditttohead]

That's not how warranties work. The problem is probably something else. People send valves to us all the time and 95% of the time the valves are just fine... but we still charge a shop fee. If it is a torn internal seal, that is considered a wear part and these can be damaged easily due to debris from the incoming water. have you checked the flow rate to the drain during the brine draw cycle? What is the injector size? Assuming you have a #1 injector your drain water should be between .4 and .5 GPM without any brine draw occurring. https://view.publitas.com/impact-water-products/2018-catalog-final/page/78-79
Can you post a picture of the brine tank and float assembly?
Tear the valve apart and check the internal seal/spacer/piston for any damage, scratches or wear. These valves are easily rebuilt.

 

[bombay63]

Drain line is not blocked anywhere and the drain flow during BW and BD looks fine. I peered through the Air gap and flow during BD looked steady but definitely lower than during BW.

I am trying to avoid tearing apart the controller if getting it repaired under warranty is easier

 

[Bannerman]

It's unfortunate the steps you have taken so far have been unsuccessful. The next step is to dismantle the control valve.

While you are thinking warranty, consider Ditttohead's comments regarding wear parts not covered by warranty and inspection of internal components.

The Pentair teardown video is attached.

 

[Reach4]

Does your water have much iron?

Drain line is not blocked anywhere and the drain flow during BW and BD looks fine. I peered through the Air gap and flow during BD looked steady but definitely lower than during BW.

Take a look at https://terrylove.com/forums/index....is-scratching-is-head-help.73584/#post-542359 through #13.

 

[bombay63]

Does your water have much iron?


Take a look at https://terrylove.com/forums/index....is-scratching-is-head-help.73584/#post-542359 through #13.

No iron since this is city water. In fact the water itself is not that hard (5) from city.

Went through the thread posted. Will try a few things tomorrow and report back.

 

[Reach4]

No iron since this is city water. In fact the water itself is not that hard (5) from city.

Went through the thread posted. Will try a few things tomorrow and report back.

I just re-read your original post. The one I just posted was for the brine not being drawn, and your problem is with the brine not refilling. Sorry I got confused on that. You were very clear.

So your brine valve sticks up, and it is not just still floating up because the brine level is high.

Can you post a picture of the brine tank and float assembly?

Do that.

One thing I noticed is that if I disconnect the Brine fill tube from the Fleck controller the valve becomes unstuck and the float moves freely. Now if I start the cycle again it will be stuck.

Is the float assembly gone bad.

It seems to me that the symptoms say yes. However I would try adjusting the float so that it sits significantly higher. The float's job is to prevent the brine tank from overflowing. If it activates during a regeneration, something is wrong.

 

[bombay63]

Thanks Reach. The issue I noticed was that the float was stuck and no water being drawn from Brine well during BD.
The issue now is no water sucking during BD cycle. Once I solve that everything else will fall into place. Seeing the video posted in thread it seems straight enough to dismantle the Controller and put it back again to see if the BD draw issue is fixed.

 

[Reach4]

The issue now is no water sucking during BD cycle. Once I solve that everything else will fall into place.

The thread I pointed to would be aimed at brine fill. So for that aspect, the brine screen, injector and that area would be the place to look. I don't think that a piston or piston seal problem would tend to cause the lack of brine fill.

What I don't know for sure, but I would like to think, is that a float at the top would only stop brine fill and not brine draw. Maybe it is that some will , and some will not.

If you can post a photo of your brine valve assembly, lifted out of the brine well, you can probably get an assessment of whether that is a good one or not. I won't recognized it, but somebody else probably can.

 

[Bannerman]

In the OP, it was identified that water is exiting the brine port while in Brine Draw. Even after cleaning the injector assembly and ensuring there are no blockages in the drain line, the problem has not been corrected. Although bombay63 has not measured the flow rate to drain, he has confirmed there is a visible flow rate difference to drain when in BW vs BD.

As water is entering the brine tank during BD, then I fully expect the fluid level has risen sufficiently to cause the float to be lifted thereby preventing additional entry of water either during BD or BF. As BD continues to flow towards the brine tank, it then appears water pressure is further preventing the safety valve from opening as it was stated the float cannot be pushed down while in BD, but can be pushed down when water pressure is relieved from the brine line.

Once the cause of the problem with the control valve has been resolved, then there will be suction on the brine line during BD and brine should be drawn into the softener. As preliminary checks have been performed, the remaining items to check are the seals, spacers and piston which will require dismantling of the control valve.

I suspect Ditttohead had requested photos of the brine tank and safety float assembly as too many online dealers have paired a great Fleck valve with cheap junk components. As bombay63 didn't state where he obtained the softener, I suspect Ditttohead wanted to determine if the brine tank and float is a Fleck or other quality product or cheap junk from offshore which might be worthwhile to replace.

 

[bombay63]

Thanks Bannerman for excellent summary of the issue.

The System was bought from Ohio Pure Water Company on Aug, 11, 2017

https://www.ohiopurewater.com/categories/?categories_id=275

It is Fleck 5600SXT Electronic 3/4 Inch Meter On Demand Control Valve Water Softener 48000 Grain Capacity
Vortech Tank
Brine Tank: 15" x 17" x 36" Rectangular, 3/8" x 4' tubing and Fleck 2310 Safety valve assembly
Resin: NSF Approved High Capacity Cation 10% Crosslink Softening Resin, 1.5 CUF

At least on the website it says that

Warranty:

Fleck Control Valves: 5 years (1 year on Piston, Seal-Spacer Kit & Brine Injector)

I am only 4 days past warranty for piston, seals etc, lets see if they can send me piston, seals etc free so I can change it.

 

[ditttohead]

The 5600 is a very simple valve to tear down and rebuild. Look at each seal/spacer very carefully for any damage, wear, and look at the piston for any scratches.