Uponor PEX problem ALERT

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JohnCT

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interesting "can be used" sounds aproved . not covered by warranty sounds not aproved. I dont think Id expand zurn
btw saw a you tube video just now from 2017 a zurn ad. says expansion has 25 year warranty? no idea what current rules are

That is odd. Zurn even puts "F1960" on their print line as approval but says no warranty for expansion applications..

Sioux Chief both approves and warrants their PEX B for F1960 expansion, so if anyone plans to expand B, they should probably consider Sioux Chief.

John
 

Jeff H Young

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That is odd. Zurn even puts "F1960" on their print line as approval but says no warranty for expansion applications..

Sioux Chief both approves and warrants their PEX B for F1960 expansion, so if anyone plans to expand B, they should probably consider Sioux Chief.

John
I dont know if the no warranty on f1960 with Zurn is current . or been changed
 

Keith_WA

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So last week we had our 9th leak in Wirsbo/Uponor PEX pipe. We are seriously looking at PERT (Legend HyperPure) pipe for the whole house re-piping job in the very near future. The primary reason for using this PERT pipe is because the manufacturer has enough faith in their product to offer a 100 year warranty - which seems to be 4x longer than regular PEX-A.

So my question for the day is do we use plastic fittings with stainless crimp rings or use brass metal fittings with stainless crimp rings???? Do you guys feel that the current generation of plastic fittings will last as long as brass fittings???????????

Keith
 
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breplum

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Note that Uponor warranty states that certified installer must be used to get the twenty five year coverage.
You local rep should be able to get you certified. Doesn't take long.
 

Master Plumber Mark

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So last week we had our 9th leak in Wirsbo/Uponor PEX pipe. We are seriously looking at PERT (Legend HyperPure) pipe for the whole house re-piping job in the very near future. The primary reason for using this PERT pipe is because the manufacturer has enough faith in their product to offer a 100 year warranty - which seems to be 4x longer than regular PEX-A.

So my question for the day is do we use plastic fittings with stainless crimp rings or use brass metal fittings with stainless crimp rings???? Do you guys feel that the current generation of plastic fittings will last as long as brass fittings???????????

Keith


They can offer you a 200 year warranty and it wont matter....
it all depends on what the local water company is throwing
into the water that will attack the pex...

In Indy they are making
a mess of things with so much chlorine and other chemicals to kill
off the bacteria's that they dont care what happens to the water softener filters
and pex pipe hidden in the walls..... I am recommending back washing
carbon filters to everyone that has pex in their homes to thin down the harshness
that comes with the chlorine and chloramines they are presently using

Their was a huge discussion about this way back in about 2007 when california
approved pex pipe in their state on this site..... Now its finally coming back to
bite people in the ass after 15 years....
 

Jeff H Young

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Note that Uponor warranty states that certified installer must be used to get the twenty five year coverage.
You local rep should be able to get you certified. Doesn't take long.
I just got a cert for a underground gas pipe a couple nights ago , took 30 minutes ( I read the installation instructions and clicked that I had completed the training) email confirmation received immediately.
 

Jeff H Young

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The warranty only slightly impresses me when a 90 blows in a wall and your gone for a few days , its not the cost of the 90 the matters . 9 leaks is not convenient whether the parts are free or not is insignificant
 

JohnCT

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So last week we had our 9th leak in Wirsbo/Uponor PEX pipe. We are seriously looking at PERT (Legend HyperPure) pipe for the whole house re-piping job in the very near future. The primary reason for using this PERT pipe is because the manufacturer has enough faith in their product to offer a 100 year warranty - which seems to be 4x longer than regular PEX-A.

So my question for the day is do we use plastic fittings with stainless crimp rings or use brass metal fittings with stainless crimp rings???? Do you guys feel that the current generation of plastic fittings will last as long as brass fittings???????????

Keith

According to what I read, the Legend pe-rt pipe is compatible with F1960 expansion fittings, which would be my preferred method of attaching pipe to fittings.

The warranty also doesn't impress me unless they are bonded and insured to cover all collateral damage that a failed pipe will cause. Getting $500 worth of pipe replaced is small consolation to the labor to install it and the cost and effort to correct any damage a leak will cause.

John
 

John Gayewski

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According to what I read, the Legend pe-rt pipe is compatible with F1960 expansion fittings, which would be my preferred method of attaching pipe to fittings.

The warranty also doesn't impress me unless they are bonded and insured to cover all collateral damage that a failed pipe will cause. Getting $500 worth of pipe replaced is small consolation to the labor to install it and the cost and effort to correct any damage a leak will cause.

John
Then why not all warranties 100 years? By saying our pipe will last 100 years they are saying about 4 times as much as uponor. About 100 years more than a copper warranty. So it's something. Imagine if their pipe was bad and they did have to pay claims to every person for 100 years worth of failures. For each individual failure is not much, but a bad product would bankrupt legend. So they are actually saying a lot with this.
 

Tuttles Revenge

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About 100 years more than a copper warranty.
The very first Big PEX repipe I tried to sell in a Large condo complex in Redmond WA 60-01 I was invited into the home of the Anti Plastic homeowner who had a 3" 3ring binder stuffed full of lawsuit info against PE. I did the whole blah blah blah 25yr warranty.. wirsbo is new here in the US, its been around forever in Europe schpeel... so he counters with "what is the warranty on copper?".. pre-internets I went asking around at one of our suppliers at the will call counter.. Everyone Laughed!! NOBODY had ever heard that question before. The branch manager gave me the number of a copper manufacture or rep.. probably anaconda. So I give them a call and get a guy who says exactly what John mentions. They offer NO warranty.. but will pay labor and materials to replace defective pipe and he sites a case in Seattle where a length of 2-1/2" Type K had a failure and they were paying for the replacement.. I was like "Hey! That was my project and my pipe! Thanks for taking care of that!!" ... They only paid half the cost of labor on our prevailing wage project. Took an entire day to fix BTW.. cheapskates.

Side note.. the failure was in the seam. Blew a stream of water directly into the ear of one of the sparkies on the site! knocked him off his step stool!!
 

Keith_WA

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Warranties are a legal game. What I'm interested in is a water pipe and fittings that will last as long as the house. My previous experience with 2 houses is with copper pipe. As I've mentioned before, I've only had one minor copper pipe leak in over 30 years. Yes, I've had valves go bad (leaking) and have replaced them, but an actual failure in the pipe itself is a different story.

Obviously, I'm not too thrilled with PEX, having 9 leaks in the last 9 years - and most of them this year.

Keith
 

JohnCT

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Then why not all warranties 100 years? By saying our pipe will last 100 years they are saying about 4 times as much as uponor. About 100 years more than a copper warranty. So it's something. Imagine if their pipe was bad and they did have to pay claims to every person for 100 years worth of failures. For each individual failure is not much, but a bad product would bankrupt legend. So they are actually saying a lot with this.

A lot of businesses simply closed down and reopened when caught in a warranty snafu. From what evidence is slowly starting, will Uponor fold and rise again with a different name?

I'm not saying at all that pe-rt pipe isn't the bees knees (yep, still hip), but how many people will even care about the warranty in 30 years? If the house needs to be repiped in 30 years, jumping through hoops (like providing sales receipts for the product to make sure it was sold through an "authorized" seller, local permit and inspection, and the license of the installer if he's still alive) to get free pipe just isn't that big as the total cost of the job, which even if there's no water damage, is still considerable.

If they guaranteed to pay all associated cost with failed pipe other than damage like fire or construction goofs rather than just a few dollars in actual material, then the warranty would impress me far more.

John
 

John Gayewski

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A lot of businesses simply closed down and reopened when caught in a warranty snafu. From what evidence is slowly starting, will Uponor fold and rise again with a different name?

I'm not saying at all that pe-rt pipe isn't the bees knees (yep, still hip), but how many people will even care about the warranty in 30 years? If the house needs to be repiped in 30 years, jumping through hoops (like providing sales receipts for the product to make sure it was sold through an "authorized" seller, local permit and inspection, and the license of the installer if he's still alive) to get free pipe just isn't that big as the total cost of the job, which even if there's no water damage, is still considerable.

If they guaranteed to pay all associated cost with failed pipe other than damage like fire or construction goofs rather than just a few dollars in actual material, then the warranty would impress me far more.

John
Let's be clear I'm a copper fan. In my area there is no better. I'm pretty sure any plastic will give to cancer if you drink from it. That's not an issue. The issue is whether legend is saying something more than uponor or copper by offering a 100 year warranty. Yes in fact they are saying a lot. You don't have to be impressed, but they are in fact staking a reputation on it.
 

Keith_WA

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Let's be clear I'm a copper fan. In my area there is no better. I'm pretty sure any plastic will give to cancer if you drink from it. That's not an issue. The issue is whether legend is saying something more than uponor or copper by offering a 100 year warranty. Yes in fact they are saying a lot. You don't have to be impressed, but they are in fact staking a reputation on it.
You guys are more familiar with Legend than I. Legend is basing their claims on Dow Chemical (who has been around for over 125 years) and is the supplier of the material used in making Legend pipe. I suspect that Dow Chemical also supplies the material for regular PEX, but I don't know that for a fact. By their claims, obviously Dow Chemical feels their PERT is a superior product to PEX....
 

Master Plumber Mark

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In my home I have copper water lines everywhere including under the slab ...I got a LOT of lines under the slab and some day I might have to re-pipe the house.... I will probably do the re-pipe in pex.....

The copper has been in the slab since 1966 and I consider that a dam good lifespan...
I moved in here 22 years ago and I immediately GROUNDED the copper water lines to an old well line and to a ground rod in the basement floor.....

I dont know how much longer I have with my copper lines but I cant say
if Wirsbo Pex will last almost 60 years or not...
 

Jeff H Young

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Warranties are a legal game. What I'm interested in is a water pipe and fittings that will last as long as the house. My previous experience with 2 houses is with copper pipe. As I've mentioned before, I've only had one minor copper pipe leak in over 30 years. Yes, I've had valves go bad (leaking) and have replaced them, but an actual failure in the pipe itself is a different story.

Obviously, I'm not too thrilled with PEX, having 9 leaks in the last 9 years - and most of them this year.

Keith
Kieth sorry for your problem, I look at it like this We have been in our house for 20years I know of no one in our tract thats had a leak that has Pex, some have CPVC and one guy I know bought his home in 2000 he had 2 leaks (CPVC) Ive fixed another cpvc leak or 2 in last couple of years. Why hasent mine or everyone elses leaked ? I dont know
9 leaks is horrible does that proove PEX is no good I dont think so. but Id be looking at repiping. Id get rid of every orginal piece of plastic. Id put anything in there befor keeping what you have. I love Copper and would highly recomend type L and good workmanship. Fresh PEX or PERT installed properly might last well but I cant be certain any of them will last as long as the house
 

Weekend Handyman

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I don’t find PERT as resistant to scuffs and scratches as PEX. You need to be need to be more mindful when strapping / supporting PERT.
 

Nebojsa

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This is hard to read since i will be replacing some of the copper pipes with (clear) pex-a. I have 6 electric water heaters with partial pex-a, before and after the water heaters.
I had a 15ft leaky copper pipe replaced with clear pex-a. The copper pipe was removed, and used the existing holes in the studs to run the pex trough all in one piece.
Man,that was simple.
So far i know that the pex-a before and after the water heater tanks are at least 11yrs old with no issues.
 

Jeff H Young

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I think we all find these few stories alarming . There are many thousands of copper leaks each year And Mark feels pretty good about the track record on his home and I see very good service from copper, I've also repiped houses as new as 17 years that had copper. And heard of repiping entire tracts of homes paid by lawsuits that had copper less than 10 years old.
Does 1 house in a thousand get a PEX leak ? or 1 in 10,000? no one likes leaks except the repiper or drywall patcher but lets not get too worried
 
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