Multiple leaks uponor pex 2012 home

Users who are viewing this thread

dollinger

Member
Messages
39
Reaction score
11
Points
8
Location
Georgia
If using PEX A, I would probably go with Sioux Chief. I heard that Zurn B is made in China now? https://pexhouse.com/who-makes-pex-a-pipe/ , but others say it's made in the U.S. Can anyone confirm that? I also would consider Legend Valve's PE-RT pipe, similar to PEX but no crosslinking. 100 year guarantee.. PE-RT is also certified for F1960 expansion fittings (an advantage in my book) so it connects just like the Uponor PEX A



I'm not a pro so can't help you there, but if if your house is two or three stories, it won't be cheap because there's more sheetrock work. If it's 5500 square on one level it shouldn't be that bad.

There are some nationwide repipers that you an contact to get a rough idea of cost and use that to compare with local company's prices.

John
I found this on Zurn. Perhaps there are two versions? "
You might find that Zurn PEX pipes are cheaper than UPONOR pipes on the internet. That can be true if you are working with Chinese duplicate versions.

The actual Zurn PEX pipes are more expensive than the UPONOR pipes."
 

JohnCT

Still learning..slowly
Messages
620
Reaction score
199
Points
43
Location
Northeast
I found this on Zurn. Perhaps there are two versions? "
You might find that Zurn PEX pipes are cheaper than UPONOR pipes on the internet. That can be true if you are working with Chinese duplicate versions.

Nothing would surprise me with regards to counterfeits. Even jet engine parts are counterfeited...

Buy from a reputable supplier and don't worry about it.

With regards to that article, it seemed AI generated -

"In the case of Zurn pipes, it leeches a small number of chemicals which is perfectly safe for human consumption. So, for the drinking water pipes, Zurn pipes are the best.

In another scene, UPONOR pipes leeches nothing at all. So, they are not safe to drink; you can use them for showers and bathrooms".



Does that make sense? How about these >

"In addition to the Engel method, Zurn and Uponor pipes are both PEX Type A."

As far as I know, Zurn does not make A at all?

" Type B piping is being phased out due to issues."

It is? Honestly, there is nothing in that article I would trust.

John
 

dollinger

Member
Messages
39
Reaction score
11
Points
8
Location
Georgia
Nothing would surprise me with regards to counterfeits. Even jet engine parts are counterfeited...

Buy from a reputable supplier and don't worry about it.

With regards to that article, it seemed AI generated -

"In the case of Zurn pipes, it leeches a small number of chemicals which is perfectly safe for human consumption. So, for the drinking water pipes, Zurn pipes are the best.

In another scene, UPONOR pipes leeches nothing at all. So, they are not safe to drink; you can use them for showers and bathrooms".



Does that make sense? How about these >

"In addition to the Engel method, Zurn and Uponor pipes are both PEX Type A."

As far as I know, Zurn does not make A at all?

" Type B piping is being phased out due to issues."

It is? Honestly, there is nothing in that article I would trust.

John
Thanks, John. The only reason I posted it is it mentioned Chinese made Zurn. I'm going to call Zurn and ask them Monday and ask them how I'm supposed to buy their product if a distributor won't quote it.
 

JohnCT

Still learning..slowly
Messages
620
Reaction score
199
Points
43
Location
Northeast
Thanks, John. The only reason I posted it is it mentioned Chinese made Zurn. I'm going to call Zurn and ask them Monday and ask them how I'm supposed to buy their product if a distributor won't quote it.

When you're talking to them, ask them if they only make B (which is what I think, but that article said otherwise).

Ferguson carries Zurn pex about a dollar a foot. Given the recent article about problems with PEX at the bends, I think I would order just straight lengths and deal with the bit of extra cutting waste. Given the scope of a repipe, a few lost feet to cutting wouldn't be a deal breaker for me.

John
 

dollinger

Member
Messages
39
Reaction score
11
Points
8
Location
Georgia
When you're talking to them, ask them if they only make B (which is what I think, but that article said otherwise).

Ferguson carries Zurn pex about a dollar a foot. Given the recent article about problems with PEX at the bends, I think I would order just straight lengths and deal with the bit of extra cutting waste. Given the scope of a repipe, a few lost feet to cutting wouldn't be a deal breaker for me.

John
John Zurn only makes PEX B but it is rated for cold expansion. Ferguson now carries their inhouse brand Jones Stephens which appears to have only been on the market for a few years with no history. Therefore Ferguson is throwing roadblocks like ordering in minimums of 50 for each fitting. That's why I'm looking at other brands like Sioux-Chief you suggested earlier.
 
Messages
2
Reaction score
1
Points
3
Location
Atlanta Georgia
Yes, that is what I am leaning towards doing. I don’t think these leaks are going to stop on their own. I am going to repipe both the hot and cold, and I am actively soliciting quotes.

In the meantime, I am getting advice on how to proceed with warranty claims with the manufacturer. This forum has been helpful.

locally, I know three other people that have had this issue. They all filed claims with Uponor. they were all denied for one reason or another, for example, pressure being too high (85 psi), expansion tank being not the right size, and other loopholes used to deny claims. My understanding is that once a claim is denied, then you can no longer be part of any class action settlement or other legal process.
This was our experience as well. Uponor seems to have this model perfected. We have the red Pex A in our house that was less than 5 years old. 3 leaks in less than 3 months. $900.00 in service charges to fix and a ruined hardwood floor. Uponor sent someone claiming to be an engineer and tested for nearly 4 hours. The report came back denied because of 3 factors. 1.) 160lb of pressure observed (that would have blown every fixture in our house to pieces bty). Logically knowing this was impossible, we had the street pressure checked and verified by Cobb county water. It was 70 pounds. No way possible to observe such a high reading with properly calibrated measuring devices. 2.) They claimed the water temperature was that was also far higher then possible. My wife runs the hot valve wide open when showering. I don't think she would do that at 150.8 degrees. NOTE: at seventy pounds or slightly more due to the compression of heating the water, that temperature would have been well within the normal operating range. 3.) The expansion tank was in a state of failure. This was true in June during the inspection but the initial failure was December 31st of 2022 and the plumber that corrected the leak confirmed it was fine in January. When I brought these facts up to the Uponor claim representative, he advised if I was not happy with the decision I could pursue arbitration. I printed out the arbitration paperwork and it is a book. It is very complicated to my eye. If someone else has completed it and has some tips, I am all ears. Weighing out my experience with Uponor, it is clear to me they have a plan and a cost avoidance strategy in place. Seven Hills is another large community not far from where I live where dozens of homeowners have experienced the same issue and that same treatment by Uponor. It is a repeated pattern from what I can tell.

NOTE: I understand one home owner in Seven Hills, who had already had a certified engineer perform extensive testing, was able to secure a remedy from Uponor, but they did not admit fault. While that is unverified, for those on the front end, I HIGHLY recommend you get your systems tested before the Uponor rep shows up. Thanks!
 
Messages
2
Reaction score
1
Points
3
Location
Atlanta Georgia
I know it makes no sence Ive never heard that uponor ignores all claims . that would really kill them in court
They don't ignore them, they very often disqualify claims on findings that put them in the clear. Oddly, those people doing the findings are paid by Uponor. It seems statistically significant that Uponor most always finds that it is the home owners fault and they are in the clear. BUT, in their rejection letter, they will tell you that you should replace all of the Pex piping as soon as possible.
 

Breplum

Licensed plumbing contractor
Messages
1,930
Reaction score
776
Points
113
Location
San Francisco Bay Area
Contributing another Uponor case story here: Home with Navien dedicated recirculation line. Red colored hot tube is the failure.
Neighbor whose house has had two recent leaks that got repaired out of pocket made a claim and Uponor accepts responsibility but will only replace the exposed piping in the crawlspace NOT the piping in the walls...they say the piping in the walls will still be under warranty, should a leak occur.
The repipe work will be done by a contractor hired directly by Uponor.
 

Jeff H Young

In the Trades
Messages
8,876
Reaction score
2,212
Points
113
Location
92346
Contributing another Uponor case story here: Home with Navien dedicated recirculation line. Red colored hot tube is the failure.
Neighbor whose house has had two recent leaks that got repaired out of pocket made a claim and Uponor accepts responsibility but will only replace the exposed piping in the crawlspace NOT the piping in the walls...they say the piping in the walls will still be under warranty, should a leak occur.
The repipe work will be done by a contractor hired directly by Uponor.
Thanks ! sounds somewhat reasonable though not totally fair in such a case I might concider a complete repipe or do the partial but seek litigation for the entire project , Im not Anti Uponor but it might push me to abandon thier product they arent the only game in town but they are cheap and easy could go with zurn or other brands copper ? Ill leave cpvc off the table butb I do think there is sch 40 or 80 cpvc sch 40 is the orange cpvc dont know if there is a domestic water aprooved .
back around 2010 Disny built a hotel high dollar with some large cpvc mains I wasent there but it was thick wall stuff.
 

dollinger

Member
Messages
39
Reaction score
11
Points
8
Location
Georgia
This was our experience as well. Uponor seems to have this model perfected. We have the red Pex A in our house that was less than 5 years old. 3 leaks in less than 3 months. $900.00 in service charges to fix and a ruined hardwood floor. Uponor sent someone claiming to be an engineer and tested for nearly 4 hours. The report came back denied because of 3 factors. 1.) 160lb of pressure observed (that would have blown every fixture in our house to pieces bty). Logically knowing this was impossible, we had the street pressure checked and verified by Cobb county water. It was 70 pounds. No way possible to observe such a high reading with properly calibrated measuring devices. 2.) They claimed the water temperature was that was also far higher then possible. My wife runs the hot valve wide open when showering. I don't think she would do that at 150.8 degrees. NOTE: at seventy pounds or slightly more due to the compression of heating the water, that temperature would have been well within the normal operating range. 3.) The expansion tank was in a state of failure. This was true in June during the inspection but the initial failure was December 31st of 2022 and the plumber that corrected the leak confirmed it was fine in January. When I brought these facts up to the Uponor claim representative, he advised if I was not happy with the decision I could pursue arbitration. I printed out the arbitration paperwork and it is a book. It is very complicated to my eye. If someone else has completed it and has some tips, I am all ears. Weighing out my experience with Uponor, it is clear to me they have a plan and a cost avoidance strategy in place. Seven Hills is another large community not far from where I live where dozens of homeowners have experienced the same issue and that same treatment by Uponor. It is a repeated pattern from what I can tell.

NOTE: I understand one home owner in Seven Hills, who had already had a certified engineer perform extensive testing, was able to secure a remedy from Uponor, but they did not admit fault. While that is unverified, for those on the front end, I HIGHLY recommend you get your systems tested before the Uponor rep shows up. Thanks!
I am in Cobb County. When I did the installation I put a pressure gauge right after the PRV and kept a check on it. You can use a hose bib pressure gauge to check it yourself. I also avoided Uponor because of all the reported issues with it. If the person who did the testing identified himself as an engineer then his report should have a Georga PE stamp. Request a copy of the report. If it does not have a PE stamp and there is anything written that says engineer and the report does not have a PE stamp it is not a valid report. Then you should file a misconduct complaint with the GA State Board of Engineering. A licensed engineer cannot lie on a report and he must stamp any work going to be relied upon by the public. The pressure on the street could be higher but the real question is if your PRV is regulating. It sounds like they are using someone claiming to be an engineer which is illegal too.
 

John Gayewski

In the Trades
Messages
4,345
Reaction score
1,339
Points
113
Location
Iowa
I'll just say I doubt they're was a fake engineer or fake numbers. The pressure in a house could very easily get very high and I highly doubt he lied. My first thought was that the testing took 4 hours because he says waiting for a high pressure scenario or trying to make one.

I worked at a house that had no expansion tank for over ten years (they needed one the whole time), but no one ever noticed because the high pressure happened after they left in the morning and everyone had showered, which was a deep draw on the water heater. The t&p would drip during the day in the closet downstairs when no one was home and the pressure would bleed off then the t&p would close. Then the water dried up. Having a plumber who knows about expansion tanks might help. No manufacturers will ever honor a claim of any kind with high pressure.
 

John Gayewski

In the Trades
Messages
4,345
Reaction score
1,339
Points
113
Location
Iowa
I guess all of the recirculation lines and boiler piping that uses pex A is failed and "you can't do that"? Except there are millions of them all over that have been working for many years.

Bad batches of pipe don't make a bad product.

Why use pex a rings if they aren't and good?

Dude's a retard.
 

dollinger

Member
Messages
39
Reaction score
11
Points
8
Location
Georgia
I'll just say I doubt they're was a fake engineer or fake numbers. The pressure in a house could very easily get very high and I highly doubt he lied. My first thought was that the testing took 4 hours because he says waiting for a high pressure scenario or trying to make one.

I worked at a house that had no expansion tank for over ten years (they needed one the whole time), but no one ever noticed because the high pressure happened after they left in the morning and everyone had showered, which was a deep draw on the water heater. The t&p would drip during the day in the closet downstairs when no one was home and the pressure would bleed off then the t&p would close. Then the water dried up. Having a plumber who knows about expansion tanks might help. No manufacturers will ever honor a claim of any kind with high pressure.
if he calls himself an engineer he has to seal his report. it should be easy to check the pressure
 

Master Plumber Mark

Sensitivity trainer and plumber of mens souls
Messages
5,537
Reaction score
357
Points
83
Location
indianapolis indiana - land of the free, home of
Website
www.weilhammerplumbing.com
Hey, it all makes me nervous either way you look at it... We have used aquapex a lot but
not as much as many other have and the clock is ticking on this stuff...
I feel all its gonna take is some dickhead at the local water company to make a mistake
and change the mixture of chlorine or other additives to the water and its gonna get ugly.....

Hopefully I should be dead and gone like Terry
long before this stuff really starts to splinter and leak so lets say in 20 years
They cant sue me if I am in the ground...

I have been encouraging people who have a house piped in wirsbo pex or any kind of pex to
consider installing a 2 cubic foot backwashing carbon filter to take out the chlormines in the city water
and extend the life of their pex plumbing system--

it really cant hurt the plumbing or your health neither
 

John Gayewski

In the Trades
Messages
4,345
Reaction score
1,339
Points
113
Location
Iowa
Hey, it all makes me nervous either way you look at it... We have used aquapex a lot but
not as much as many other have and the clock is ticking on this stuff...
I feel all its gonna take is some dickhead at the local water company to make a mistake
and change the mixture of chlorine or other additives to the water and its gonna get ugly.....

Hopefully I should be dead and gone like Terry
long before this stuff really starts to splinter and leak so lets say in 20 years
They cant sue me if I am in the ground...

I have been encouraging people who have a house piped in wirsbo pex or any kind of pex to
consider installing a 2 cubic foot backwashing carbon filter to take out the chlormines in the city water
and extend the life of their pex plumbing system--

it really cant hurt the plumbing or your health neither
I don't mind most of what he said. It's appreciate it more of he presented his opinion and said why he preferred pex b. Instead he is just using his confirmation bias to make some silly claims.
 

Jeff H Young

In the Trades
Messages
8,876
Reaction score
2,212
Points
113
Location
92346
I don't mind most of what he said. It's appreciate it more of he presented his opinion and said why he preferred pex b. Instead he is just using his confirmation bias to make some silly claims.
John I didnt re listen to his you tube but have seen several if not all of them , the more you listen the less integrety he seem to have. I give him benefit of doubt maybe he just has a strong opinion but looks worse to me than just opinion.
Mark Lets hope we all have many good years left . I miss Terry though never met him and hope the site continues on and his plumbing buisness like to hear more from the Love Family on here hope all are well !
 
Top
Hey, wait a minute.

This is awkward, but...

It looks like you're using an ad blocker. We get it, but (1) terrylove.com can't live without ads, and (2) ad blockers can cause issues with videos and comments. If you'd like to support the site, please allow ads.

If any particular ad is your REASON for blocking ads, please let us know. We might be able to do something about it. Thanks.
I've Disabled AdBlock    No Thanks