Uponor PEX problem ALERT

[JohnCT]

I’ve had two leaks that have occurred right behind the stop cocks inside of the wall where the Uponor PEX line feeds through a black sleeve that attaches to the side of the 2 x 4 in the wall. In each situation, the Uponor PEX has split The first occurring on January 6 or 7th of 2022 and another one that just occurred on April 7 of 22 in my 2015 home.
I have had a considerable amount of damage and expense with all of this and don’t know what to expect at the other locations in my home.
I have contacted the builder and they have told me to contact the manufacturer Uponor.

Keep us updated. Your house was built in 2015, do you know if the plumbing was exposed to light for any length of time during the build?

John

 

[Jeff H Young]

I’ve had two leaks that have occurred right behind the stop cocks inside of the wall where the Uponor PEX line feeds through a black sleeve that attaches to the side of the 2 x 4 in the wall. In each situation, the Uponor PEX has split The first occurring on January 6 or 7th of 2022 and another one that just occurred on April 7 of 22 in my 2015 home.
I have had a considerable amount of damage and expense with all of this and don’t know what to expect at the other locations in my home.
I have contacted the builder and they have told me to contact the manufacturer Uponor.

View attachment 82806

Thanks for showing your problem please fill us in on suspected causes , do you have a pressure regulator? high water pressure ?

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Breplum]

To follow up on my original post... Uponor paid to have 100 % entire house repiped and allowed one of the corporate "Repipe Specialist" companies do it with sheetrock patch and paint.

 

[FullySprinklered]

I keep looking at those pics and the color of the pipe and the expansion collar are raising a flag. Does anyone think that maybe excessive heat or excessive UV could cause aggravate the condition of bad material? I know Uponor said they believe it to be a manufacturing issue but I wonder if some circumstance that wouldn't ordinarily affect this PEX might be affecting this batch.

John

Do we know how many times the operator cycled the tool?

 

[Jeff H Young]

To follow up on my original post... Uponor paid to have 100 % entire house repiped and allowed one of the corporate "Repipe Specialist" companies do it with sheetrock patch and paint.

Sorry about the problem but Uponor paying for it is good for your client. I think its not as widespread or we would hear more the fact some lawsuit popped up doesn't convince me a few dozen or hundreds of homes is one thing 10s or hundreds of thousands of homes would be very sad because I believe generally its good product. BTW another repair job for me rats chewed through PEX springing a leak under house messy !

 

[JohnCT]

Do we know how many times the operator cycled the tool?

I doubt that will be ever known. In any case, it would seem to me that any of the PEX A suppliers would have tried cycling the tool even dozens of times and/or left the tool maw wide open for a long period of time to see the reaction after the connection is eventually made. There is no actual warning given to limit the number of expansions once the pipe is fully seated on the head except that it takes longer for the connection to be considered watertight if over-expanded.

John

 

[Keith_WA]

We live in southwest Washington and have lived in this house for 9 years. The house was built in 2005/2006. In 2018 we had a microscopic crack in a Wirsbo PEX pipe near our water heater. A year later we had another Wirsbo PEX leak not far from the original leak. In March of this year (2022) we had another Wirsbo PEX pipe leak in the same room as the water heater. In June of this year (2022) we had another Wirsbo PEX leak, but in a wall in a bedroom - which flooded the floor and caused damage to the carpet and padding (in the bedroom, closet, and hallway). This summer we have had several more leaks in Wirsbo PEX. As of this date, we are up to Leak # 8.

All the leaks have been the same - microscopic cracks in Wirsbo PEX. Leak # 7 is in a cold water pipe. All the other leaks have been in hot water pipe or hot water re-recirculating pipe.

We have submitted defective pipes to Uponor. As of today they are claiming that there is not a problem with the Wirsbo PEX (my words), but are willing to pay for only plumbing materials for only the hot side.

Obviously, we are investigating having ALL the Wirsbo PEX plumbing replaced. It is going to be expensive..........

Keith

P.S. A close neighbor of ours is having similar problems with their Wirsbo PEX plumbing. (Their house was built within a year of ours.)

 

[Breplum]

We live in southwest Washington and have lived in this house for 9 years. The house was built in 2005/2006. In 2018 we had a microscopic crack in a Wirsbo PEX pipe near our water heater. A year later we had another Wirsbo PEX leak not far from the original leak. In March of this year (2022) we had another Wirsbo PEX pipe leak in the same room as the water heater. In June of this year (2022) we had another Wirsbo PEX leak, but in a wall in a bedroom - which flooded the floor and caused damage to the carpet and padding (in the bedroom, closet, and hallway). This summer we have had several more leaks in Wirsbo PEX. As of this date, we are up to Leak # 8.

All the leaks have been the same - microscopic cracks in Wirsbo PEX. Leak # 7 is in a cold water pipe. All the other leaks have been in hot water pipe or hot water re-recirculating pipe.

We have submitted defective pipes to Uponor. As of today they are claiming that there is not a problem with the Wirsbo PEX (my words), but are willing to pay for only plumbing materials for only the hot side.

Obviously, we are investigating having ALL the Wirsbo PEX plumbing replaced. It is going to be expensive..........

Keith

P.S. A close neighbor of ours is having similar problems with their Wirsbo PEX plumbing. (Their house was built within a year of ours.)

This is a known issue. If you haven't read my follow up. The company fully paid for complete repipe and wall repairs of the Red and Blue lines...not any uncolored. They never say anything revealing about the problem, just that they are willing to pay.

 

[JohnCT]

All the leaks have been the same - microscopic cracks in Wirsbo PEX.

Were these red/blue pipes or white?

John

 

[Keith_WA]

Were these red/blue pipes or white?

John

All the Wirsbo PEX piping in this house is white..

 

[Keith_WA]

This is a known issue. If you haven't read my follow up. The company fully paid for complete repipe and wall repairs of the Red and Blue lines...not any uncolored. They never say anything revealing about the problem, just that they are willing to pay.

At this point in time, all they are willing to assist with is paying for the replacement pipe, on the hot water side only. As I've stated before, we have experienced a leak in a cold water pipe - exactly like those in the hot water Wirsbo PEX pipes.....

 

[JohnCT]

All the Wirsbo PEX piping in this house is white..

The coloring process exclusive to Uponor is known to damage pipe in the same way that exposure to UV does.

My best guess is that on new construction, the pipe was exposed to sunlight for a significant amount of time. Many plumbing contractors cover installed PEX on new construction to prevent "sunburn".

Yours is the first time I've heard of Uponor white pipe failing.

John

 

[Tojoski]

I bought some of the white Uponor PEX-A back in 2015 for a project that never got off the ground but I am now looking at using it to plumb a small bathroom in my metal shop. I know the issues I have been reading about are supposed to be limited to the colored versions but now I have pause to using any of it. I had even thought I would eventually repipe my CPVC house in mostly PEX-A so I even invested in the Milwaukee expander tool.

Mine has been indoors and covered so I don't think UV exposure will have affected it.

What's everyone's plans, are you going to keep using it?

 

[WorthFlorida]

For 13 years reading and contributing to this forum, I do not ever recall ever reading problems with CPVC. A home I bought and was built in 1989, all copper, never a leak and sold it in 2016, however, a neighbor copper under the slab developed a leak. Fortunately is was a ranch so all of the hot water lines were run through the attic space. I do not know what was used (around 1992) but it was before PEX was readily avaialble. My current home built in 2007 is all CPVC and about 3000 other homes in the HOA, no know problems with CPVC.

 

[Jeff H Young]

Obviously there are more issues than what have been reported here. How big a problem is it ? I think there are millions of homes with pex. out of a million cars of any brand we would see a few dozen transmission problems and not go bonkers. how many homes with copper have slab leaks or leaks anywhere..
So I think its hard to get reliable info, of cource there are lawyers chomping at the bit to get rich off anything.
If this is very widespread itll be money for repipe companys for sure and people sending fear.
I have some concerns about it but think that a proper install with new material should be fine, I still partly dont trust PEXA the memory of pex to seal joints over years and multiple decades but have yet to hear of pex failing in a manner of it losing manner

 

[Tojoski]

For 13 years reading and contributing to this forum, I do not ever recall ever reading problems with CPVC. A home I bought and was built in 1989, all copper, never a leak and sold it in 2016, however, a neighbor copper under the slab developed a leak. Fortunately is was a ranch so all of the hot water lines were run through the attic space. I do not know what was used (around 1992) but it was before PEX was readily avaialble. My current home built in 2007 is all CPVC and about 3000 other homes in the HOA, no know problems with CPVC.

We plumbed my house in CPVC in 07 and so far no issues but reading forums back in the 2012 era you would think it to be a ticking timebomb. I used the brass to CPVC transition unions wherever I needed to transition (no plastic threads) and so far, the only thing I have had issues with is the seals in my 1/4 turn shutoff valves, which unfortunately aren't rebuildable.

 

[Jeff H Young]

We plumbed my house in CPVC in 07 and so far no issues but reading forums back in the 2012 era you would think it to be a ticking timebomb. I used the brass to CPVC transition unions wherever I needed to transition (no plastic threads) and so far, the only thing I have had issues with is the seals in my 1/4 turn shutoff valves, which unfortunately aren't rebuildable.

I m finishing a bath remodel house built in 2000 he had a underslab leak few years ago and a lfitting leaking at glue joint in master a few monthes ago . upon fdoing my work and non scientifically testing the pieces I removed my opinion the stuff is definately more brittle than new . I dont recomend cpvc at all but its cheap easy and legal, I trust it for 10 years or so if properly installed . if its easy to get to like in a basement or crawlspace ok . up inside walls behind tile or underslab (including glue joints which is legal) I dont trust it. good enough for a flip house not unethical to install but Im just not too trusting of it nor do I find experianced tradesman that think highly of it. unlike PEX or COPPER. thats what you have in your house fear not but anything can happen no matter which system you have

 

[John Gayewski]

I bought some of the white Uponor PEX-A back in 2015 for a project that never got off the ground but I am now looking at using it to plumb a small bathroom in my metal shop. I know the issues I have been reading about are supposed to be limited to the colored versions but now I have pause to using any of it. I had even thought I would eventually repipe my CPVC house in mostly PEX-A so I even invested in the Milwaukee expander tool.

Mine has been indoors and covered so I don't think UV exposure will have affected it.

What's everyone's plans, are you going to keep using it?

We use it on all type of projects. It's not going away. Call uponor and see if your batch was effected. I doubt it will have been.

 

[Keith_WA]

Our two previous houses had copper pipe. In over 30 years (combined for both houses) we only had one leak in copper. (The only other leak I ever saw was a leak caused by a bad solder job at a joint.) The house was built in 1968 (Vietnam war period when copper was in short supply). The actual leak was a pin hole leak that happened around 2010. It looked like a defect in the pipe - a very small amount of foreign material embedded in the copper. The material had eroded away, thus causing a very small leak. I drained the water out of the pipe and took my propane torch and put a drop of solder on the contaminated area. Problem solved....

Our current house was built around 2005/2006 has white Wirsbo PEX as stated in my posts above. I'm convinced that we have some defective manufactured pipe. Only takes a small difference in the complex chemical composition of the PEX to produce different physical properties. 7 of the 8 leaks were in the hot water side. I'm assuming that the higher temperature (125 degrees hot vs. 60 degrees cold pipe) has accelerated the ageing of the pipe. Several of the local plumbers who have repaired the leaks in our house have seen (or heard from other local plumbers) of occasional microscopic cracks in Wirsbo PEX that have caused leaks. Of course Uponor absolutely denies their pipe is defective. In reading the fine print in Uponor Limited Warranty (provided to us directly from Uponor this week), they very clearly state "Date of the Uponor Plumbing System and shall expire twenty-five (25) years after the applicable installation Date." My interpretation of their language is that the product life of their PEX is only 25 years. Do you guys expect the lifespan of your houses to be only 25 years????

Keith

 

[John Gayewski]

Our two previous houses had copper pipe. In over 30 years (combined for both houses) we only had one leak in copper. (The only other leak I ever saw was a leak caused by a bad solder job a joint.) The house was built in 1968 (Vietnam war period when copper was in short supply). The actual leak was a pin hole leak that happened around 2010. It looked like a defect in the pipe - a very small amount of foreign material embedded in the copper. The material had eroded away, thus causing a very small leak. I drained the water out of the pipe and took my propane torch and put a drop of solder on the contaminated area. Problem solved....

Our current house was built around 2005/2006 has white Wirsbo PEX as stated in my posts above. I'm convinced that we have some defective manufactured pipe. Only takes a small difference in the complex chemical composition of the PEX to produce different physical properties. 7 of the 8 leaks were in the hot water side. I'm assuming that the higher temperature (125 degrees hot vs. 60 degrees cold pipe) has accelerated the ageing of the pipe. Several of the local plumbers who have repaired the leaks in our house have seen (or heard from other local plumbers) of occasional microscopic cracks in Wirsbo PEX that have caused leaks. Of course Uponor absolutely denies their pipe is defective. In reading the fine print in Uponor Limited Warranty (provided to us directly from Uponor), they very clearly state "Date of the Uponor Plumbing System and shall expire twenty-five (25) years after the applicable installation Date." My interpretation of their language is that the product life of their PEX is only 25 years. Do you guys expect the lifespan of your houses to be only 25 years????

Keith

Hyperpure has a 100 year warranty and can be joined any of the ways pex is joined.