Uponor colored PEX degradation -- two leaks so far

[WellOff]

I purchased Uponor pipe and fittings back in 2019 for a repipe project for my home but put that project on a back-burner until now..

My pipe is colored. After running across discussion like here I'm now considering tossing it in favor of non-colored. More poking around I see that Ferguson, a major plumbing supply house, appears to NOT be offering Uponor colored piping [anymore?*], only Uponor piping with colored lettering: https://www.ferguson.com/category/pipe-tubing/plastic-pipe-tubing/plastic-tubing

* I didn't buy my pipe from Ferguson. I'd be interested to know if Ferguson ever sold the colored Uponor. If they did then that would tend to indicate that Ferguson sensed an issue with it. I'll note that Ferguson sells Jones Stephens colored piping; make what one wants out of this. CORRECTION: Ferguson appears to still sell colored, but only blue and in 300' and 1,000' coils.

NOTES: I'm on a well and treat my water with H2O2. Backwash filter deals with residual H2O2 (I typically run with a little over 1ppm of residual H2O2 out of my contact tank). Putting this here just for a data point. My repipe project uses a trunk and branch topology and will have all connections above floor (except connection to the supply line from my well) and all accessible except for the showers- minimal connections. I am NOT using any type of recirc..

Someone posted a document from Flow Guard that points the finger at PEX issues being (primarily) caused by flexing. Obviously a company selling CVPVC is going to look to anything that pushes down competition but there certainly seems like there's merit to this theory.
https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/any-2024-uponor-updates.107422/post-766975

 

[WellOff]

FWIW - I contacted supplyhouse.com, where I purchased the pipe from, and they are aware of the current litigation and said that I can return the pipe for a refund.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[foplumbing]

great to see that pex is indeed better than copper, as per many handymen

 

[JohnCT]

My pipe is colored.

In the link you provided, onepicture of the examples of failed PEX was white/clear. I wonder what the percentages of colored pipe to white pipe were sold and if the percentages matched the failure rate.

Someone posted a document from Flow Guard that points the finger at PEX issues being (primarily) caused by flexing. Obviously a company selling CVPVC is going to look to anything that pushes down competition but there certainly seems like there's merit to this theory.
https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/any-2024-uponor-updates.107422/post-766975

It seems that many of the failed pics on the web have been on curved sections, and I have suggested that maybe using straight sections and using fittings instead of sweep bends might be a better long term plan. Flowguard certainly has an axe to grind and I notice they don't mention the propensity to fracture after 10 years, but their info does smack of even-handedness.


John

 

[DavidTu]

I think about the only thing we know for sure is that Uponor doesn't play well with recirc systems.

John

I didn't catch the recirc-specific finding, just reading this thread... can you elaborate or is that in the lawsuit postings elsewhere?

 

[JohnCT]

I didn't catch the recirc-specific finding, just reading this thread... can you elaborate or is that in the lawsuit postings elsewhere?

I'm just watching the cause and effect - it seems that most of the people complaining of PEX failures are seeing problems on the hot side first, and recirc systems more often than not. Temperature is one of the things that shortens life of PEX along with chemicals and pressure. Since recirc systems don't appear to be in the majority of installations, it would *appear* (my speculation) that running hot water through the PEX continuously would accelerate its aging, particularly when run with the wrong flow rate.

 

[John Gayewski]

Running hot water continually through anything shortens it's life.

I'm just watching the cause and effect - it seems that most of the people complaining of PEX failures are seeing problems on the hot side first, and recirc systems more often than not. Temperature is one of the things that shortens life of PEX along with chemicals and pressure. Since recirc systems don't appear to be in the majority of installations, it would *appear* (my speculation) that running hot water through the PEX continuously would accelerate its aging, particularly when run with the wrong flow rate.

 

[HighqualityPlumbing]

I purchased Uponor pipe and fittings back in 2019 for a repipe project for my home but put that project on a back-burner until now..

My pipe is colored. After running across discussion like here I'm now considering tossing it in favor of non-colored. More poking around I see that Ferguson, a major plumbing supply house, appears to NOT be offering Uponor colored piping [anymore?*], only Uponor piping with colored lettering: https://www.ferguson.com/category/pipe-tubing/plastic-pipe-tubing/plastic-tubing

* I didn't buy my pipe from Ferguson. I'd be interested to know if Ferguson ever sold the colored Uponor. If they did then that would tend to indicate that Ferguson sensed an issue with it. I'll note that Ferguson sells Jones Stephens colored piping; make what one wants out of this. CORRECTION: Ferguson appears to still sell colored, but only blue and in 300' and 1,000' coils.

NOTES: I'm on a well and treat my water with H2O2. Backwash filter deals with residual H2O2 (I typically run with a little over 1ppm of residual H2O2 out of my contact tank). Putting this here just for a data point. My repipe project uses a trunk and branch topology and will have all connections above floor (except connection to the supply line from my well) and all accessible except for the showers- minimal connections. I am NOT using any type of recirc..

Someone posted a document from Flow Guard that points the finger at PEX issues being (primarily) caused by flexing. Obviously a company selling CVPVC is going to look to anything that pushes down competition but there certainly seems like there's merit to this theory.
https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/any-2024-uponor-updates.107422/post-766975

Similar to you I stored unused WHITE Uponor pipe at home in an almost dark garage with window blinds closed; it yellowed within a few short months, both uneven yellow blots as well as overall yellowing.
I also stored the expansion rings in a box in the almost dark garage, and they too started yellowing within a few months.
The same happed to unused white Uponor pipe that I stored in the attic with very minimal light (perhaps ca. 99% dark, the only light coming from the ventilation holes).
Likewise, a white cold water pipe with water at 50 psi that I installed and completely covered with insulation fiberglass was yellowed and blotted when I removed the insulation a few months later for inspection.
I'm wondering if the rapid yellowing and blotting is normal even for "good" batches of pipe. Has anybody seen any Uponor pipe staying completely white after a few months of use in the dark or unused and exposed to only minimal light? Should I assume that my pipe is from a bad batch?

 

[John Gayewski]

Similar to you I stored unused WHITE Uponor pipe at home in an almost dark garage with window blinds closed; it yellowed within a few short months, both uneven yellow blots as well as overall yellowing.
I also stored the expansion rings in a box in the almost dark garage, and they too started yellowing within a few months.
The same happed to unused white Uponor pipe that I stored in the attic with very minimal light (perhaps ca. 99% dark, the only light coming from the ventilation holes).
Likewise, a white cold water pipe with water at 50 psi that I installed and completely covered with insulation fiberglass was yellowed and blotted when I removed the insulation a few months later for inspection.
I'm wondering if the rapid yellowing and blotting is normal even for "good" batches of pipe. Has anybody seen any Uponor pipe staying completely white after a few months of use in the dark or unused and exposed to only minimal light? Should I assume that my pipe is from a bad batch?

Yellowing is normal. It comes from the air around the pipe or the water inside of the pipe. It doesn't mean anything.

 

[HighqualityPlumbing]

Yellowing is normal. It comes from the air around the pipe or the water inside of the pipe. It doesn't mean anything.

Thank you.
I asked because apparently in most of the threads about the early Uponor leaks in this forum, on Youtube and other sources, the brown blotting and discoloring was associated with potentially missing or early oxidation of the stabilizers that retard the degradation from Chlorine or Chloramine, and with the widespread Uponor pipe failures.
I think my Uponor pipe that I stored and left in the original box while also covering the box opening, did not discolor, in contrast to pipe that was stored in an almost dark garage or attic. This would indicate that the discoloring does not come from air alone; but only very small amounts of light, and/or even short use of the installed pipe even with cold water, start the oxidation process quickly.
It also strikes me that the early blotting is not confined to the inside, but appears to travel through the pipe wall and blot and discolor the entire thickness of the material.
I'm just trying to put two and two together, and figure out whether I can expect early failure of my installation.

 

[foplumbing]

well, would you look at that
and here i thought the plumbers who swear by pex being better than copper were on to something rather than being cheap and lazy

 

[John Gayewski]

well, would you look at that
and here i thought the plumbers who swear by pex being better than copper were on to something rather than being cheap and lazy

I didn't know there were plumbers who swear that pex is better than copper. I think most plumbers think that every material has its merits and different materials are good for different applications.

 

[John Gayewski]

Thank you.
I asked because apparently in most of the threads about the early Uponor leaks in this forum, on Youtube and other sources, the brown blotting and discoloring was associated with potentially missing or early oxidation of the stabilizers that retard the degradation from Chlorine or Chloramine, and with the widespread Uponor pipe failures.
I think my Uponor pipe that I stored and left in the original box while also covering the box opening, did not discolor, in contrast to pipe that was stored in an almost dark garage or attic. This would indicate that the discoloring does not come from air alone; but only very small amounts of light, and/or even short use of the installed pipe even with cold water, start the oxidation process quickly.
It also strikes me that the early blotting is not confined to the inside, but appears to travel through the pipe wall and blot and discolor the entire thickness of the material.
I'm just trying to put two and two together, and figure out whether I can expect early failure of my installation.

Your observations not withstanding pex turns yellow and the conditions that cause it vary. It doesn't indicate failure. That someone guessing.