Uponor PEX problem ALERT

[John Gayewski]

My personal opinion is pex's 25 year warranty has always been suspect. Copper has no kind of warranty that I know of, but it's literally the element copper. What kind of warranty should there be? I do like the 100 year hyperpure warranty. Seems like a product made of plastic should have longer warranty. Although they do say the life expectancy is longer than the warranty.

 

[Keith_WA]

Hyperpure has a 100 year warranty and can be joined any of the ways pex is joined.

Hi John,
How long has "Hyperpure" been in use? Do you believe it is a superior product compared to PEX? Is it installed like PEX?

Personally, I think copper is the "gold standard" of water pipe in houses. It has been around for many, many decades and has proven to have a reliably very long life.

We must have our house re-piped, period... I think copper is considerably more difficult to install in this existing house, and a lot more expensive. We are looking at replacing our Wirsbo PEX with PEX but don't have a lot of confidence in the product...

Keith

 

[Sponsor]

 

[John Gayewski]

Hi John,
How long has "Hyperpure" been in use? Do you believe it is a superior product compared to PEX? Is it installed like PEX?

Personally, I think copper is the "gold standard" of water pipe in houses. It has been around for many, many decades and has proven to have a reliably very long life.

We must have our house re-piped, period... I think copper is considerably more difficult to install in this existing house, and a lot more expensive. We are looking at replacing our Wirsbo PEX with PEX but don't have a lot of confidence in the product...

Keith

Copper is number 1 best in most situations. There are some areas with water that isn't very compatible with copper.

Hyperpure is PERT polyethylene raised temperature. You can install it like any other pex product. Expansion, cinch, crimp or compression. It's copper tube size like pex the only difference is it isn't crosslinked like pex is. It's only been around since 2018 I think so not very long, but I've used it and it's good. 100 year warranty kind of speaks for itself. Legend is the brand.

 

[Keith_WA]

Copper is number 1 best in most situations. There are some areas with water that isn't very compatible with copper.

Hyperpure is PERT polyethylene raised temperature. You can install it like any other pex product. Expansion, cinch, crimp or compression. It's copper tube size like pex the only difference is it isn't crosslinked like pex is. It's only been around since 2018 I think so not very long, but I've used it and it's good. 100 year warranty kind of speaks for itself. Legend is the brand.

Hi John,

Legend's 100 year warranty is 4 times as long as Uponor's 25 year warranty. Looks like Legend Company themselves have been around for a while. Dow Chemical who makes the base material for Legend has been in business for over 125 years and generally has a very good reputation. Do you have any idea of what Legend's reputation is for standing behind their products?

Keith

 

[Tojoski]

Well, this is concerning. Just got mine out of the trash bags I had it stored in only to find these yellow spots on it that won't rub off.. what in the world?

It's more prevalent on the 1/2" roll but definitely there on the 3/4" as well.

I sent pictures as well as the lot numbers to Uponor.

 

[John Gayewski]

Hi John,

Legend's 100 year warranty is 4 times as long as Uponor's 25 year warranty. Looks like Legend Company themselves have been around for a while. Dow Chemical who makes the base material for Legend has been in business for over 125 years and generally has a very good reputation. Do you have any idea of what Legend's reputation is for standing behind their products?

Keith

I haven't had to deal with legend so I'm not sure. There should be a local plumbing supply company that sells legend. I would ask them.

 

[JohnCT]

Hyperpure is PERT polyethylene raised temperature. You can install it like any other pex product. Expansion, cinch, crimp or compression.

I've seen a couple of on-line blurbs that mention Hyperpure PE-RT being compatible with F1960 expansion fittings, but strangely, nothing on Legend's site mentions this. The only PEX I'll install is the expansion variety (including the PEX Bs that now certify expansion, so I'm interested in seeing if PE-RT can be expanded and warrantied to do so.

John

 

[Jeff H Young]

a really good warranty is impressive but I think replacing a blown fitting or piece of pipe for free is no big deal you blow a joint flood a house 50,000 dollars damage and they say here I'll give you a brand new 90 at no charge sorry about the flood but that's not included. I don't think a 25 yr warranty is bad but Uponor might need to step it up. 20 years ago none of the faucet companies warranted lifetime now they all do or most do give lifetime
I'm not a big PEX fan nor do I bash them I pretty much expect at least 3/4 of homes to never have a bad joint for at least 30 years and trust (hope) it does for it to be considered a good product. if it can't perform that good then its junk material or poorly installed either is unacceptable

 

[JohnCT]

a really good warranty is impressive but I think replacing a blown fitting or piece of pipe for free is no big deal you blow a joint flood a house 50,000 dollars damage and they say here ill give you a brand new 90 at no charge sorry about the flood but thats not included.

Agree. The cost of the product itself is tiny when it comes to the total cost of the install, and nothing compared to collateral damage a failed pipe might cause.

John

 

[Weekend Handyman]

Hyperpure has a 100 year warranty and can be joined any of the ways pex is joined.

It can also be fused … can’t imagine what the tool costs tho.

 

[wwhitney]

It can also be fused … can’t imagine what the tool costs tho.

Apparently under $1,000. No experience, but there's this:

Hayes Digital Socket Fusion Pipe Welder Tool Complete Kit PRO (up to 1 in.) - - Amazon.com

Hayes Digital Socket Fusion Pipe Welder Tool Complete Kit PRO (up to 1 in.) - - Amazon.com

www.amazon.com

Looks like it only comes with IPS rings, so you'd need to get some CTS rings for use with Hyperpure.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[Master Plumber Mark]

It’s under the slab now. I wish I would have seen this post a few weeks ago since the slab was just poured.

Is Wirsbo different than Uponor AquaPex?

As you can see, most of the hookups going to everything is the white stuff. But the main run (into the white stuff) is a big blue line.

PS - Are those light “white scratches” concerning on the bottom of the blue line?

View attachment 81613View attachment 81614View attachment 81615

For the love of Jesus Christ....
who would throw manifolds like this under a slab rough??
In what part of the USA do the inspectors allow this? Did you pressure test everything??

I personally would have brought all those lines up through the floor somewhere and installed all those manifolds where you could get access to them some day ....Did you lay some kind of carpet or protective barrior around and over those manifolds??.

May god have mercy on your soul if you ever have to get access to any of those black plastic manifolds if they get pressure stress cracks in them from being under the concrete

I guess as long as it lasts a year you are in the clear....

 

[Jeff H Young]

For 13 years reading and contributing to this forum, I do not ever recall ever reading problems with CPVC. A home I bought and was built in 1989, all copper, never a leak and sold it in 2016, however, a neighbor copper under the slab developed a leak. Fortunately is was a ranch so all of the hot water lines were run through the attic space. I do not know what was used (around 1992) but it was before PEX was readily avaialble. My current home built in 2007 is all CPVC and about 3000 other homes in the HOA, no know problems with CPVC.

Thanks for letting us know your experiance . maybe the cases Ive heard arent the norm. why stop using the cheapest known and nearly perfect product? 92 we used excusively copper but just a few years later 94 or 95 at most CPVC had a big run , wirsbo just came in and took off like gang busters never looking back. Ive never seen a home with type b pex and clamps or crimp other than some handy man stuff but Im sure it was and is built that way in small numbers.
Worth Florida, have you missed the complaints of CPVC being brittle with moderate age? I guess most complaints of this arent of it just blowing up but most plumbers say be very careful around the stub outs

 

[Jeff H Young]

Copper is number 1 best in most situations. There are some areas with water that isn't very compatible with copper.

Hyperpure is PERT polyethylene raised temperature. You can install it like any other pex product. Expansion, cinch, crimp or compression. It's copper tube size like pex the only difference is it isn't crosslinked like pex is. It's only been around since 2018 I think so not very long, but I've used it and it's good. 100 year warranty kind of speaks for itself. Legend is the brand.

Interesting I havent even done much PEX but sounds like as far as installing very little differance. I suppose if we do quality work a 100 year warranty on labor might be impresive if not expected why just a year?
In all seriousness high quality material is so important repair work and damages can get over 100 ,000 on an average home in high cost areas plus the inconvieniance insurance claims etc. I need to look into PERT!

 

[Tojoski]

Just an update in regard to the Uponor with the yellow splotches that I posted previously:

Uponor responded to my email and stated that the yellow splotches were most likely due to the antioxidants changing color over time, and that it was safe to use as long as it wasn't exposed to UV.

I still don't have a warm and fuzzy feeling about using it. Right now, I am thinking of using either Zurn pex-b with f1960 or one of Sioux Chief's options of pex-a or pex-b that support the f1960 fittings.

 

[Keith_WA]

Just an update in regard to the Uponor with the yellow splotches that I posted previously:

Uponor responded to my email and stated that the yellow splotches were most likely due to the antioxidants changing color over time, and that it was safe to use as long as it wasn't exposed to UV.

I still don't have a warm and fuzzy feeling about using it. Right now, I am thinking of using either Zurn pex-b with f1960 or one of Sioux Chief's options of pex-a or pex-b that support the f1960 fittings.

I wouldn't use it either for any permanent construction project. How long did you store it in plastic bags???

 

[Tojoski]

I wouldn't use it either for any permanent construction project. How long did you store it in plastic bags???

Roughly 6yrs.

 

[Jeff H Young]

I heard of using f1960 fittings with type b by some guy on you tube touting thats the best thing to use with zurn Pex. but never heard of anyone expanding type b hope Im not mixing it up he was down on uponner and big on zurn and expanding it .
Prior I thought type b couldnt be expanded hadnt looked further into it

 

[Reach4]

https://www.siouxchief.com/docs/default-source/technical-documents/other/supply/tech-bulletin---pex-b-with-f1960

Says no hand-powered tools allowed...

https://www.zurn.com/media-library/web_documents/pdfs/brochures/zmktg370-04-pdf.aspx says
ASTM F 1960 is the standard for "Cold Expansion Fittings" as sold
by Wirsbo/Uponor. Zurn PEX tube can be used with these fittings
so the standard number is included in the print string on our tube
but the system is not covered by the Zurn PEX warranty.

https://terrylove.com/forums/index....-uponor-pex-b-fittings-expansion-rings.94262/

 

[Jeff H Young]

https://www.siouxchief.com/docs/default-source/technical-documents/other/supply/tech-bulletin---pex-b-with-f1960

Says no hand-powered tools allowed...

https://www.zurn.com/media-library/web_documents/pdfs/brochures/zmktg370-04-pdf.aspx says
ASTM F 1960 is the standard for "Cold Expansion Fittings" as sold
by Wirsbo/Uponor. Zurn PEX tube can be used with these fittings
so the standard number is included in the print string on our tube
but the system is not covered by the Zurn PEX warranty.

https://terrylove.com/forums/index....-uponor-pex-b-fittings-expansion-rings.94262/

interesting "can be used" sounds aproved . not covered by warranty sounds not aproved. I dont think Id expand zurn
btw saw a you tube video just now from 2017 a zurn ad. says expansion has 25 year warranty? no idea what current rules are