Multiple leaks uponor pex 2012 home

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Mj23

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2012 house, I have been here for two years. Whole house uponor pex. Clear PEX

in March 2023, I had a leak on the hot water side in upstairs closet approximately 10 feet from the water heater. At the time, Plumber told me that the Pipe was brittle and was cracking in several places and that I would have future issues.

In December 2023, I had a leak on the same hot water line, approximately 6 inches from the first leak. This time, the plumber replacement, approximately 20 feet of pipe working backwards from the water heater.

In January 2024, just a couple of weeks after the above repairs, I had another leak in a hot water line, approximately 10 feet from where the line was repaired.

in between these incidents, I also had a slab leak in July 2023 on the cold water side, which the plumbers thought was from some thing rubbing against the pipe. The remainder of the pipe looked OK.

I see these as my options:

1. Do nothing and hope the problem goes away.
2. Add a leak flow detection device at my water meter that shuts off water in the event of any leak. This won’t prevent damage, but may mitigate it. Then, watch and wait
3. proceed with re-piping the hot water line only.
4. Proceed type of both the cold and hot water lines

For completeness, I have never had a recirculation pump, but the previous owner probably did. Also, I now have a pressure reducing valve put in.

What would you do?

Also, I have heard about the Uber north claims department, but I’ve heard very few stories of people successfully getting any compensation recently. is it worth it?
 

Jeff H Young

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You havent filed a claim? plumber been fixing it free ? I wouldnt be paying with out at least consulting and attempting warranty, who is Uber North claims department?
 

Breplum

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Jeff, that was him meaning to say Uponor Claims (i'm pretty sure). With colored pex, Uponor are definitely paying claims when submissions have the product identification to go with it.
 

Mj23

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My pex is not colored. It is clear Friday.

I have not filed a claim with Uponor yet. this is because I have heard that they are denying claims, and once they deny the claims, you have no other legal recourse. Is that correct?
 

Jeff H Young

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My pex is not colored. It is clear Friday.

I have not filed a claim with Uponor yet. this is because I have heard that they are denying claims, and once they deny the claims, you have no other legal recourse. Is that correct?
I wouldnt care what I heard I wouldnt do nothing , My motto : do something even if its wrong.
Jeff, that was him meaning to say Uponor Claims (i'm pretty sure). With colored pex, Uponor are definitely paying claims when submissions have the product identification to go with it.
He hasent bothered to contact
 

Tuttles Revenge

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Not filing a claim is the only guarantee that Uponor will do nothing.

If you have legit product failure you need to file a claim..
 

JohnCT

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What would you do?

Me? I'd repipe both hot and cold - with something else other than Uponor. The thought of impending hidden leaks would drive me nuts.

A single leak could be anything, but more than one leak is a pattern that won't get better. It seems that the hot water side always fails before the cold, but if the hot water side is failing at 10 years, the cold water side would probably start failing in another 5.

I'd repipe using a different brand of PEX since Uponor doesn't know why some pipe fails (multiple times at any given place) while most of their product never has a single leak ever. Maybe your water just doesn't get along with Uponor.
 

Mj23

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Me? I'd repipe both hot and cold - with something else other than Uponor. The thought of impending hidden leaks would drive me nuts.

A single leak could be anything, but more than one leak is a pattern that won't get better. It seems that the hot water side always fails before the cold, but if the hot water side is failing at 10 years, the cold water side would probably start failing in another 5.

I'd repipe using a different brand of PEX since Uponor doesn't know why some pipe fails (multiple times at any given place) while most of their product never has a single leak ever. Maybe your water just doesn't get along with Uponor.
Yes, that is what I am leaning towards doing. I don’t think these leaks are going to stop on their own. I am going to repipe both the hot and cold, and I am actively soliciting quotes.

In the meantime, I am getting advice on how to proceed with warranty claims with the manufacturer. This forum has been helpful.

locally, I know three other people that have had this issue. They all filed claims with Uponor. they were all denied for one reason or another, for example, pressure being too high (85 psi), expansion tank being not the right size, and other loopholes used to deny claims. My understanding is that once a claim is denied, then you can no longer be part of any class action settlement or other legal process.
 

John Gayewski

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Repipe the whole thing and send uponor some piping for analysis to file a claim. The only reason they would deny you is if the pipe was ruined by either the contractor or the piping supplier. They determine why the piping failed and should approve a claim that is legitimate.
 

Tuttles Revenge

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Repipe the whole thing and send uponor some piping for analysis to file a claim. The only reason they would deny you is if the pipe was ruined by either the contractor or the piping supplier. They determine why the piping failed and should approve a claim that is legitimate.
And always save several sections in case you need to have it independently verified.
 

JohnCT

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My understanding is that once a claim is denied, then you can no longer be part of any class action settlement or other legal process.

I'm not a lawyer, but my understanding is that if you are a member of a class action suit that loses, you cannot claim anything individually. Does that also work in reverse? Maybe someone here can clear that up.

John
 

DirtyJerz

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My understanding is that once a claim is denied, then you can no longer be part of any class action settlement or other legal process.
That makes no sense to me but I’m not a lawyer.

That said, filing a claim can’t really disqualify you unless you actually agree to something that says that you waive any right to further action. If you never agree to something like this, I don’t see what mechanism they would have to deny something in the future. So just read the fine print.
 

Mj23

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Repipe the whole thing and send uponor some piping for analysis to file a claim. The only reason they would deny you is if the pipe was ruined by either the contractor or the piping supplier. They determine why the piping failed and should approve a claim that is legitimate.
That makes no sense to me but I’m not a lawyer.

That said, filing a claim can’t really disqualify you unless you actually agree to something that says that you waive any right to further action. If you never agree to something like this, I don’t see what mechanism they would have to deny something in the future. So just read the fine print.
Yes, any time you file a claim wit’s Uponor, you waive your right to any further action. It pretty much says that on their claims webpage. And they are finding reasons to deny a lot of claims, at least in this area.
 

Mj23

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Me? I'd repipe both hot and cold - with something else other than Uponor. The thought of impending hidden leaks would drive me nuts.

A single leak could be anything, but more than one leak is a pattern that won't get better. It seems that the hot water side always fails before the cold, but if the hot water side is failing at 10 years, the cold water side would probably start failing in another 5.

I'd repipe using a different brand of PEX since Uponor doesn't know why some pipe fails (multiple times at any given place) while most of their product never has a single leak ever. Maybe your water just doesn't get along with Uponor.

thank you. This has been very insightful. I am getting quotes for repping both the hot and cold side. What other brand of peX do you recommend, besides Uponor?


also, the quotes are all over the place in terms of cost. What is an acceptable range for 5500 square-foot house with five full bathrooms and 2 half bath.
 

JohnCT

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thank you. This has been very insightful. I am getting quotes for repping both the hot and cold side. What other brand of peX do you recommend, besides Uponor?

If using PEX A, I would probably go with Sioux Chief. I heard that Zurn B is made in China now? https://pexhouse.com/who-makes-pex-a-pipe/ , but others say it's made in the U.S. Can anyone confirm that? I also would consider Legend Valve's PE-RT pipe, similar to PEX but no crosslinking. 100 year guarantee.. PE-RT is also certified for F1960 expansion fittings (an advantage in my book) so it connects just like the Uponor PEX A

also, the quotes are all over the place in terms of cost. What is an acceptable range for 5500 square-foot house with five full bathrooms and 2 half bath.

I'm not a pro so can't help you there, but if if your house is two or three stories, it won't be cheap because there's more sheetrock work. If it's 5500 square on one level it shouldn't be that bad.

There are some nationwide repipers that you an contact to get a rough idea of cost and use that to compare with local company's prices.

John
 

Master Plumber Mark

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thank you. This has been very insightful. I am getting quotes for repping both the hot and cold side. What other brand of peX do you recommend, besides Uponor?


also, the quotes are all over the place in terms of cost. What is an acceptable range for 5500 square-foot house with five full bathrooms and 2 half bath.


If you are on city water you might have high levels of Chlorine and Chlormines too.... your best option is to install a back washing carbon filter to take out all the chlorines from the system
If you re-pipe the house out of some other kind of pex I strongly urge you to install and carbon filter......no kind of pex is impervious to high levels of chlorine


Are you aware that their is another kind of pipe available that seems to last forever,,,

its something called COPPER and it is by far the most reliable kind of pipe on the market.... This path might cost you a few grand or more to install but it will be the
last time you will ever have to do this....

you got 5 full bathrooms and 2 half baths laundry and kitchen.......
I would like to hear the quotes you have already gotten.........
my guess would be 25k.. so am I high or low??
 
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JohnCT

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Are you aware that their is another kind of pipe available that seems to last forever,,,
its something called COPPER and it is by far the most reliable kind of pipe on the market....

I have zero knowledge on this one way or the other, but there have been rumblings that today's copper pipe is not nearly as durable as the stuff made decades ago.

Today, K, L, and M copper plumbing pipe has to be by law a minimum of 99.9% copper and silver combined with a maximum allowable percentage of phosphorous of 0.040 %. That leaves 0.06 percent not defined near as I can tell. Maybe that's impurities in the copper itself?

Is this how copper pipe was made years ago, can the quality of ore itself have an effect, or is the copper pipe made today just as good as the "good old days"?

I don't have a clue, just throwing that out there.

John
 
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