Replace Culligan Medalist Plus w/ Fleck 5800-series or Clack WS1.25

[Dmlaero]

I'm looking for advice on replacing a Culligan Medalist Plus Model 30 water softener installed in the 2006 timeframe. It is not completing the regeneration cycle due to E1 and E2 errors. Not sure if it's a sticking filter pack or a weak motor. Sometimes I can get it to complete the cycle if I manually assist the cam. Also needing replacement is a crappy push-pull style bypass valve that is leaking and corroded metal nut fittings. Instead of dropping $300+ on a service call and parts, I'd like to get away from the proprietary Culligan stuff and get something more universal and user serviceable if possible.

I haven't tested it myself, but the water in the Las Vegas/Henderson area seems to be routinely reported in the 20 grains range. My house is 3800 sq-ft with 5 bedrooms and 4 full baths serving a family of 4 so I think we use about 75 gal per person per day. If I'm applying what I've learned on this forum correctly, I think I'm consuming 6000 grains per day so I should be looking at a 2.0 cu-ft system using a salt dose of 3-6 lbs to regen once every 5-7 days. The water softener loop is plumbed with 1-1/4" copper lines so to take advantage of that it seems to make sense to install a valve with minimal flow restriction.

I've been looking at the Fleck 5800 series, but I'm not sure whether the 5800, 5810, or 5812 is the most suitable option (I've also considered the Fleck 7000, but it appears to have been obsoleted). The Clack WS1.25 seems like a comparable valve, but again I'm not sure of which option makes sense (can't find much info on the TC, EI, CI, EE, and SP designations).

I'm a fairly advanced DIY'er so I'm not opposed to doing some work myself to save money and gain knowledge, but I'm open to having the work done by a pro if it isn't cost prohibitive. Does anyone have recommendations on retailers/dealers in the Las Vegas/Henderson area?

A couple of related questions:
What does the community think about using Falcon SS flex lines for hookup? What should I look for (or look out for) in terms of media?

 

[Reach4]

I haven't tested it myself, but the water in the Las Vegas/Henderson area seems to be routinely reported in the 20 grains range.

Are you on city water? If so, you will want 10% crosslinked resin for sure.

The water softener loop is plumbed with 1-1/4" copper lines so to take advantage of that it seems to make sense to install a valve with minimal flow restriction.

I've been looking at the Fleck 5800 series, but I'm not sure whether the 5800, 5810, or 5812 is the most suitable option

The Fleck 5812 is the one for 1.25 plumbing.

3 cubic ft would be better for 4*75 gallons per day, and figuring 22 grains with compensation. That would typically be a 14 x 65 tank.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Dmlaero]

Yes, it is city water supply. Are there any better brands for media or is all 10% cross linked pretty much equivalent?

Can you explain your rationale for 3 cu-ft? Is that to decrease the salt dosing or reduce the regen frequency or what? I know there are trade-offs, but I'm not sure I understand the right way to balance them.

 

[Reach4]

Yes, it is city water supply. Are there any better brands for media or is all 10% cross linked pretty much equivalent?

Can you explain your rationale for 3 cu-ft? Is that to decrease the salt dosing or reduce the regen frequency or what? I know there are trade-offs, but I'm not sure I understand the right way to balance them.

When you regenerate, you will on average leave about 1/2 day of reserve capacity unused. With more capacity, that is smaller compared to the regeneration interval.

If you went with a 2 cubic ft 12" x 52" softener, you would still get very good efficiency. I guess 3 could be considered overkill, but the extra space it would take is not a lot.

 

[Dmlaero]

Reach4, thanks for the info so far!

The spec sheets for the 5800, 5810, and 5812 all say 3/4", 1", or 1-1/4" NPT/BSP/Sweat for the inlet/outlet. Can I ask what lead you to say that the 5812 is the one to use for 1-1/4" lines? Is there something internal to the valve (that doesn't show up on the spec sheet) that is different between the models?

The stub out for the drain line is 1/2" copper and the 5812 spec sheet says it has a 1.5" NPT drain connection which seems like a big mismatch. The 5800 and 5810 use a 1/2" or 3"4 inch drain, respectively, so if the flow rate and other factors are sufficient for my application they would seem more compatible at first glance (at least to my untrained eye).

 

[Reach4]

The spec sheets for the 5800, 5810, and 5812 all say 3/4", 1", or 1-1/4" NPT/BSP/Sweat for the inlet/outlet. Can I ask what lead you to say that the 5812 is the one to use for 1-1/4" lines?

See http://waterpurification.pentair.com/en-US/product/5800-valve/
See "High Performance Flexible 1-1/4" Valve" under 5812, and "High Performance Flexible 1" Valve" under 5810.

 

[Dmlaero]

OK, I see that...interesting. This is the site I used as well. If you click on any of the valves and then go to the Resources tab on the page it brings up, the spec sheets can be downloaded. On the spec sheets, it lists the 3/4", 1", or 1-1/4" sizes for each of the valves. Wonder if they have a typo on them?

5800 Spec Sheet: http://waterpurification.pentair.co...nload/en/43350-fleck-5800valve-rev-e-au16.pdf
5810 Spec Sheet: http://waterpurification.pentair.co...oad/en/4004318-fleck-5810valve-rev-d-au16.pdf
5812 Spec Sheet: http://waterpurification.pentair.co...oad/en/4004319-fleck-5812valve-rev-c-au16.pdf

 

[ditttohead]

The valves have plumbing connector s in multiple sizes. The5810 and 5812 share the same bypasses and plumbing connectors including 3/4" to 1-1/2" sweat, 3/4"-1-1/2 pvc glue, 1"to 1-1/2" threaded and now we just released a 1" upnor pex connector, and a multitude of direct connect stainless flex lines. The valves have variances internally that make their ratings from 3/4" to 1-1/4". They all share the same electronics and powerhead. Different valve bodies and internal components give them different flow ratings.

The 5800 shares the same connectors/bypasses as the 5000, 2510, 5600, 9100 and has 3/4" to 1-1/4" sweat, 3/4"-1" threaded, and 3/4"-1" pex connections available. The 1-1/4" sweat connector is a bit of a code cheater... it looks like a pair of binoculars as it is changing the 3/4" connection to 1-1/4" sweat.

As to the drain sizes on the valves, the 5812 can accommodate a massive 40+ gpm to drain so the pipe size has to match this potential. You can reduce the drain to 1/2" without a problem so long as the flowrate does not exceed 8 FPS. We typically recommend that reasonable distances at 7 GPM can be accommodated with 1/2" PVC.

The 5800 has a 1/2" discharge but has an optional 3/4" DLFC that can accommodate approximately 15 GPM.

The 5810 uses the same drain connections as the 7000 so 3/4" and 1" connections are available with flow rates up to 25 GPM being normal.

The 5812 uses a new drain adapter in 1" or 1-1/4". These are usually reduced to match the actual flow rate/FPS requirements.