RUGGED said:
And the crap will skip right across to the other side until that toilet is flushed.
Having a toilet pulled on one side of that equation and flush one that has excrement in it........it will end up in the 90 pointing up at you.
Sinkholed, Your casual attitude on the structural and plumbing concept of your issue makes me wonder why you even bothered creating this thread. If it drains and the floor doesn't fall in, you're fine with it.
Well, so am I.
Didn't intend to portray a "casual attitude" regarding the structural & plumbing mess the original developer installed 33 years ago. My wife -- who wants both these adjoining bathrooms finished with 12" ceramic tile -- is the one with the casual attitude. I'm here precisely because I don't want to approach this in a casual attitude. Sorry if it seemed otherwise.
I've never had any problem with this plumbing, and so my focus on these bathrooms' rehabs was on the finished/visible portion of the rebuild. My main concern was rebuilding the sagging subfloor so it had proper structural support for 12" tile (rather than the original 1" mosaic tile sheets that were used). With that in mind I'd lined up a highly competent friend to assist me, and we were scheduled for the subfloor rebuild this weekend (6/23-24/07). The plan was -- and still hopefully is -- to rebuild the "right side" bathroom in time for a graduation party on August 4. Once the right side subfloor was done, I'd have 6 weeks left to finish that "main/guest" bathroom, during which my family would still have access to the smaller "left side" bathroom.
Well once I'd gutted down to studs, and removed the tub, that was when I became aware that there were NO JOISTS supporting the wall that separates the left & right bathrooms. Guess I should have realized that sooner, but once I did, my structurally-savvy friend come over to take a look.
That is where I am now. My friend says he can retrofit some support in the joistless space that houses my plumbing mess. That retrofit support would allow us to remove & rebuild the right side bathroom's subfloor, without compromising the left side bathroom's subfloor. And then after the August 4 party, we could tackle the rebuild of the left side bathoom.
Now here is why I have sought the advice of the plumbing forum here. Though my guy said he could retrofit some support around the existing plumbing, he recognizes that obviously it would be better if that plumbing was lower. That if they had only built the stack so that that "ideal double cross whatever-you-call-it" was BELOW the joist line, it would be much easier/more structurally sound to retrofit the necessary joist support in there.
So the question arose about "simply" (HA!) getting a plumber (or possibly me) to drop that whatever-you-call-it lower in the stack.
I do not have any other problem with the stack. Yes, the tub had been draining slower than it had, and yes I guess that would be improved if it was re-plumbed to drain more vertically than the original horizontal run they had installed. And I believe I understand the potential "crapshoot" (lol!) that installing the newer 1.6gal toilets might introduce.
My wife thinks I can just leave it all alone, let my friend retrofit whatever support he can fit around the existing plumbing, and just finish the thing off. I am concerned -- with good reason, I believe -- that unless I lower the "whatever-call-you-it" below the joists, so that full joist support can be intoduced, the new floor's 12" ceramic tile might be fatally flawed: 12" tile is prone to cracking unless properly supported.
So, what do I hope to find out from you guys here? Well for starters it seems it'll ballpark $1500-2000 to redo everything as is. I assume it'd be more or less the same to have it lowered, provided I didn't need to introduce new venting though the attic and out to the roof.
I am going to try & get estimates to confirm, but I would LOVE to be able to learn what the consensus opinion is here regarding WHAT & HOW the new plumbing should be laid out. I realize this is beyond me, and if I'm going to mess with what I've got I need a professional. I'd like to understand enough to know whether what is being suggested by a local plumber is up to snuff. If I can get specifics that pass muster with you guys here, I can use them to determine if this new plumber is going about it the right way.
Thanks to everyone who has commented on this thread; please keep it up. I think I've learned enough to be somewhat conversantly knowledgeable about what should or shouldn't be done, but I'm still in the "little knowledge is a dangerous thing" category. Keep it coming! And thanks to all!!
PS: In rereading, I guess I need to emphasize that I am NOT conversantly knowledgeable enough to understand half of what has been said here so far. I try, and I think I arrive at an understanding of most comments, if only through the context of the discussion. But if one or more of you is kind enough to review a step-by-step "problem/solution" suggestion, please keep in mind my "novice/virgin" knowledgebase. I had to google "WYE", so such terms as that and "SanTee" are alien to me. If that's what they're called, and you suggest that "this" or "that" piece go "here" or "there", I think I can follow along. Just try to assume I won't have the slightest idea of what you're talking about it, so try to be as "gentle" & specific with me as you can