Quick question: BF time when decreasing from 40k to either 36 or 32k grain

Discussion in 'Water Softener Forum, Questions and Answers' started by Ioiwin, Mar 25, 2020.

  1. Ioiwin

    Ioiwin Member

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    Jul 19, 2018
    Location:
    AZ
    Hi all!

    Currently I’m running Fleck SXT 64000 grain water softener and with all of your forums help i was able to configure it to 40000 grain with BF = 8 mins. However, I my family isn’t using up the 2900 gallons of soft water before manual regeneration at 30 days (recommended by this forum). Is it ok to go down to either 32000 or 36000 grain and what would the BF times be respectively for each? I’m getting slightly different info online. Thank you!
     
  2. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

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  4. Ioiwin

    Ioiwin Member

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    Is it ok to decrease my grains, or should I increase my manual regeneration to let’s say, 45 days?
     
  5. Ioiwin

    Ioiwin Member

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    So for 32000 grains should I use 5 minutes BF? I’ve seen other posts where values were BF = 6. Will it make a difference which I use?
     
  6. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

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    Yes. It will make a difference whether you use 5 or 6 minutes.

    6 minutes will give C=40 or C=42, depending on which set of numbers you use. I don't know that you will find somebody saying that 6 minutes with a 0.5 BLFC and 2 cuft of resin will give you only 32000 grains of softening.

    As to how many grains of softening you should get, one set of numbers has more more margin built in than the other.

    Here is another set of numbers based on the other different set of numbers:
    BLFC = 0.5
    cubic ft resin = 2
    Alternative C and BF pairs:
    lb/cuft ; C= ; BF=
    5.250 ; 37.2 ; 7
    6.000 ; 40.0 ; 8
    6.750 ; 43.1 ; 9
    7.500 ; 46.1 ; 10
    8.250 ; 48.9 ; 11

    I understand they don't match the second set. Don't get hung up on that.
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2020
  7. Ioiwin

    Ioiwin Member

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    Reach, you were a big help in helping me set up my softener last year. The second set of numbers you sent me matches what you sent me last year. It was agreed I would use BF = 8 for 40000 grains. So what is your recommendation then on BF for 32000 grains? I wasn’t sure since the 2 charts are different. Also, what would you recommend for 36 or 37000 grains? Thanks...
     
  8. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

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    You are trying to save salt. How about 4.500 ; 36.0 ; 6 minutes. That is much leaner than usual. One thing is that I think the countdown starts over when you change settings. So take that into account. Also the brine tank is already filled for the next regen. So you won't know the effects of the change for almost a couple months.

    Your 8 minutes (6 lb/cuft) was already pretty economical with the salt.
     
  9. Ioiwin

    Ioiwin Member

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    The main thing is I guess in a month I feel like we weren’t using up close to 2900 gallons. We used to when we had frequent guests. What do you mean when you say the countdown starts all over? Countdown to manual override 30 days? Or countdown from softened gallons to 0? If I decide to lower the C, how should I go about this now the my brine tank is filled to BF = 8? Thanks...
     
  10. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

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    Countdown of gallons and countdown of days, I think. Not sure. So I think the softener may think it has regenerated when you changed the settings, even if you don't regenerate then. I have not experimented on that, but I remember something like that happening when I was changing numbers.

    Maybe just ignore the fact that the next regen is going to be richer than the ones that follow.
     
  11. Bannerman

    Bannerman Well-Known Member

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    Location:
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    You said in your original thread that the water hardness is 15 gpg. You were then advised to program an additional 2-3 gpg when programming the softener to anticipate occasional additional hardness which is common when municipal water is obtained from multiple sources. A rough calculation indicates the hardness setting is currently programmed at 13 gpg which is less than the water hardness amount you stated is actually contained in the water.

    You did not specify how many gallons are remaining just prior to regeneration at 30 days.

    In keeping the Capacity setting at the current 40,000 grains, changing the hardness setting to 17 gpg will result in the following:
    40,000 / 17 = 2,353 gallons regenerated each cycle.
    You said your family of 4 each use 35 gallons/day so X 4 = 140 gallons/day.
    2,353 - 140 (reserve) = 2,213 gallons displayed / 140 (daily use) = 15.8 - 16 days estimated between regeneration cycles.

    The correct amount of salt needed to regenerate 40K grains in 2 ft3 of resin is 12 lbs.
    4 gallons water will be needed to dissolve 12 lbs salt as each gallon will dissolve 3 lbs salt.
    For 4 gallons to be automatically added the brine tank with a 0.5 gpm BLFC, the BF setting needed will be 8 minutes.

    Even if your water tested at 11 gpg hardness and so you then programmed 13 gpg, that will then result in the following:
    40,000 / 13 gpg = 3,077 gallons - 140 (reserve) = 2,937 gallons / 140 gallons usage = 20.9 - 21 days estimated between regeneration cycles if your estimated water consumption was reasonably accurate.
     
  12. Ioiwin

    Ioiwin Member

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    Hey all, my new setting are as follows:

    Fleck 5600SXT Settings:
    DF = Gal ; Units
    VT = dF1b ; Downflw/Upflw, Single Backwash
    CT = Fd ; Meter Delayed regen trigger
    NT = 1 ; Number of tanks
    C = 36.0 ; capacity in 1000 grains
    H = 14 ; Hardness-- compensate if needed
    RS = rc ; rc says use gallons vs percent
    RC = 175 ; Reserve capacity gallons
    DO = 30 ; Day Override (28 to 30 if no iron)
    RT = 2:00 ; Regen time (default 2 AM)
    BW = 5 ; Backwash (minutes)
    Bd = 60 ; Brine draw minutes
    RR = 5 ; Rapid Rinse minutes
    BF = 6 ; Brine Fill

    Do these look okay to you guys? My main question is, I changed these settings about 14 days into my previous regeneration when there was 2700 gallons left to next regen. After changing to these settings above the gallons went down to 2390 before next regen. Should I wait it out till it regenerates on its own, do a manual regeneration now, or maybe do one in a couple of weeks to equal 30 days since last regeneration? Thanks...
     
  13. Bannerman

    Bannerman Well-Known Member

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    Location:
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    Why is there such a discrepancy between the information you provided in your other thread which you based your water softener purchase on, to the results reported in this thread?

    You said your 4 person family each use 35 gals water per day. Was this inaccurate?

    You said your municipal water contains 15 gpg hardness. Was this inaccurate?

    You didn't state how many gallons capacity were remaining when regeneration was forced by the 30 day DO setting.

    The capacity setting should be matched to the salt amount. This chart at the link below specifies 8 lbs salt (4 lbs/ft3) will regenerate 34,000 grains capacity in 2 ft3 of resin.

    Your 6 minute BF setting will use 9 lbs salt to restore 36,000. While this may work OK, suggest using the Capacity and salt settings indicated in the chart so you will have a reliable written reference.

    https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?attachments/resin-chart-jpg.53316/

    Since the remaining capacity was decreased when you made the setting changes, and as there us currently 12 lbs brine prepared which is more than needed to regenerate the new lower capacity amount, suggest allowing the softener to automatically regeneration on its own.
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2020 at 8:23 AM
  14. Ioiwin

    Ioiwin Member

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    Bannerman I’m not sure how it’s different, I ended up doing 40000 grains with BF = 8 based on your guys recommendations last thread. We have been using less water as of late (less people being home). It’s hard for me to understand that chart. Based on that chart, i can go to 34000 grains, what BF would I use?

    Also, is there any detriment in wasting all the softened water before the 30 day override? I think I was only using 6 lb salt for 40000 grains? Would it be better just use 40000 grains and wasting some softened water vs using more salt to only get 34000 grains?
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2020 at 8:51 AM
  15. Ioiwin

    Ioiwin Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2018
    Location:
    AZ

    I did read the chart, and to get 34000 grains at 4lb/ft 2 cu ft resin, how many BF mins? Sorry for the stupid questions, didn’t know how to get this calculation. Thanks
     
  16. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

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    See post #2, which is based on that table. The number would be 8*4/6=5.333 minutes (your current minutes * 4 lb / 6 lb). But you can only choose integers, so choose 5 or 6 minutes. If you choose 6 minutes, you could use C=36.0.
     
  17. Ioiwin

    Ioiwin Member

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    Yes doing some calculations if I choose BF = 6 mins I get 4.5 lb/ft, if I choose BF = 5 mins I get 3.75 lb/ft. If I’m shooting for 4 lb/ft to get 34000 grains, which is better to choose, 5 or 6 mins? Thanks so much
     
  18. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

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  19. Ioiwin

    Ioiwin Member

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  20. Bannerman

    Bannerman Well-Known Member

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    Ontario, Canada
  21. Bannerman

    Bannerman Well-Known Member

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    The forum is not allowing my postings. Terry has been notified, but I'm still intermittently experiencing issues.
     
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