Question on water suction line and pump setup

[dslywalker]

Currently in the process of installing a water pump system for business.Business curtails of a small kitchen and bar and men and womens restroom...Upstairs is a old brothel upstairs consisting of 6 rooms and one toilet and shower at the end of the hall..Kitchen has just the usual triple sink and so does the bar.
This install is going to be for emergency only as they live in a small mtn town with a not so dependable water company.. We will be putting in a 5000 gallon tank and pressure tank[bladder] and a 1 hp pump rated at 27gpm. The tank will set 125' away 7' above the pump..Of course the suction line will be in question beings its that far away..We are planning to run a 2" pvc line on that 7' decline as to keep the air pockets out of it..Hopefully you can get the drift of this install..Look like we'll have 4 or 5 lbs of suction pressure..Question is what do you think of this suction line setup and setup overall.
Were trying to keep away from building a pump house and keep theft at a minium..Small remote town and even light bulbs and circuit breakers aren't safe from theft..Its kind of a 4 wheel drive town with ATVs s daily drivers..So you can't get anyone to come up to work cause of the trip and road..So any help would be great..
We are installing the following equipment but haven't bought yet

https://www.amazon.com/Myers-HJ100S...83&sr=8-1&keywords=myers+pump#customerReviews


https://www.amazon.com/WaterWorker-...coding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=ZJ7JPZQJK4XK6BWN51H1

Thank you for any input
Mike

 

[Reach4]

We are planning to run a 2" pvc line on that 7' decline as to keep the air pockets out of it.

You will have to allow for thermal expansion and contraction. Will the pipe be above ground? Have you considered polyethylene?

 

[Sponsor]

 

[dslywalker]

You will have to allow for thermal expansion and contraction. Will the pipe be above ground? Have you considered polyethylene?

Pipe will be 3' in the ground and no haven't considered polyethylene but will now..Haven't bought anything yet.
Thanks for your reply

 

[Reach4]

3 ft down will make thermal changes much less, but maybe you would want to fill the hole when things are stabilized temperature-wise. http://www.charlottepipe.com/Documents/PL_Tech_Man/ExpansionandContraction.pdf

125 ft is not a lot. When I saw AZ, I figured that temperature swings could be pretty big. And I was expecting you to have the pipe shallower.

Polyethylene has no seams, so that could be an advantage with a suction pump.

 

[dslywalker]

3 ft down will make thermal changes much less, but maybe you would want to fill the hole when things are stabilized temperature-wise. http://www.charlottepipe.com/Documents/PL_Tech_Man/ExpansionandContraction.pdf

125 ft is not a lot. When I saw AZ, I figured that temperature swings could be pretty big. And I was expecting you to have the pipe shallower.

Polyethylene has no seams, so that could be an advantage with a suction pump.

AZ has temp swings every 50 miles..Town has temps probably comparable to Prescott Az..Your right on no seams on the pipe..So you must think pump size and pipe size is good then.Thanks for the link...Another question on check valve placement..With that long of suction line would it be better on the tank or the pump
.If you type Crown King Az into the search engine.Its a pretty neat old mining town..

 

[Valveman]

A suction line usually has a gradual slope up to the pump. A gradual slope down to the pump will work fine, just make sure not to have any high spots in the suction line for air to accumulate. The HJ100S will work fine, but the 86 gallon bladder tank is an old way of doing things. You have a 5000 gallon tank of water stored, the pressure tanks only purpose is to reduce the cycling on/off of the pump. I would use a Cycle Stop Valve to eliminate the pump cycling, then you only need a 4.5 gallon size pressure tank. The PK1A kit comes with the Cycle Stop Valve and a 4.5 gallon size pressure tank. The PK1A will cost less than the 86 gallon tank, and do a much better job. Plus the PK1A kit is much smaller and lighter for transportation purposes. It also needs less room to install and is more out of sight for any thief.

 

[dslywalker]

A suction line usually has a gradual slope up to the pump. A gradual slope down to the pump will work fine, just make sure not to have any high spots in the suction line for air to accumulate. The HJ100S will work fine, but the 86 gallon bladder tank is an old way of doing things. You have a 5000 gallon tank of water stored, the pressure tanks only purpose is to reduce the cycling on/off of the pump. I would use a Cycle Stop Valve to eliminate the pump cycling, then you only need a 4.5 gallon size pressure tank. The PK1A kit comes with the Cycle Stop Valve and a 4.5 gallon size pressure tank. The PK1A will cost less than the 86 gallon tank, and do a much better job. Plus the PK1A kit is much smaller and lighter for transportation purposes. It also needs less room to install and is more out of sight for any thief.

I've been looking at CSVs for a few years now.I put one on well once and it worked great.Actually been working for 15 years..Trying to convince the old timers to switch to that has been hard..The bigger the tank the more water and pressure we have they think..This is a newer guy so i'll run it by him. Do you sell them or have a link to one?
Thanks

 

[Valveman]

Yeah this is what you need. https://cpkits.com/collections/frontpage/products/custom-pk1a-pside-kick-kit

Sometimes a video is the best way to explain it.

 

[dslywalker]

Yeah this is what you need. https://cpkits.com/collections/frontpage/products/custom-pk1a-pside-kick-kit

Sometimes a video is the best way to explain it.

Any advantage to the 10 gallon tank beings this is a business and put the pressure up to 65psi?? Think they might be getting a dishwasher and code requires hotter water and more pressure but I have to check.. Be great as far as theft but we had a guy get his elec breaker stolen while watching TV. Good thing the guy had to load his shotgun or been a sore butt..You think the check valve should go on the pump or tank on long suction line like that..
Thanks for your input.The Pside-kick-kit is looking better all the time.
Mike

 

[Valveman]

The only reason to go with the larger 10 gallon tank is to go to higher pressure like 65 PSI. With a CSV constant pressure setting of 65, you would need a 55/75 pressure switch setting. At 55/75 the larger 10 gallon tank would be needed to hold the same volume as the smaller tank does at lower pressure. However, to use a 55/75 pressure switch setting, you will also need a pump with a max pressure of at least 80 PSI, like maybe a J15S Goulds.

 

[Ballvalve]

g to keep away from building a pump house and keep theft at a minium..Small remote town and even light bulbs and circuit breakers aren't safe from theft..Its kind of a 4 wheel drive town with ATVs s daily drivers..So you can't get anyone to come up to work cause of the trip and road..So any help would be great..
We are installing the following equipment but haven't bought yet

https://www.amazon.com/Franklin-Ele...8&qid=1501100837&sr=8-3&keywords=cistern+pump
Here is a pump made for a tank. No chance of freezing and damn tough to steal. You can also use a submersible set at a 45' angle in the tank. Will out perform and outlast most any jet pumps. You could put your pressure tank or csv in the building, thus everything is hidden.[/QUOTE]

 

[Valveman]

You can lay a regular submersible completely on its side, which would be hard to steal and much better than one of those bottom feeder pumps like the Franklin or the Pentair STEP. They don't seem to be holding up very good. I think the dinky motor is the main problem.

 

[dslywalker]

That's a idea, tank is 12' tall...Were putting a tank heater in it so float don't freeze in place..Didn't know you could put a submersible in a water tank..Thou I guess it makes sense. Then if I went bladder tank or CSV I could run a 1" pressure line to it..Put a pump protector on it with pressure switch..Should have know problem pushing water to the 2nd story. Does this make sense or am I off base here
Thanls guys

 

[Valveman]

Yeah that will work. You just need to make sure the pump can work at 50/70 pressure, which is what I use on two story buildings.

 

[dslywalker]

Owner wants to go with this pump and 10 gallon csv system.
http://www.pexuniverse.com/grundfos-jp5-61dsa-deep-well-jet-pump-97855090

appreciate your help
Thanks Mike

 

[Valveman]

Pumping from a storage tank you need a shallow well jet pump. I think that one will work, but I can't find a performance chart for a shallow well jet assembly.

 

[dslywalker]

Pumping from a storage tank you need a shallow well jet pump. I think that one will work, but I can't find a performance chart for a shallow well jet assembly.

This is the pump he should have given me..Sorry about that. The literature is on the website
http://www.supplyhouse.com/Grundfos-97855091-JP5-61ASA-Shallow-Well-Jet-Pump-Cast-Iron-230V-1-1-2-HP

 

[Valveman]

Good pump. Max pressure of 116 so a 50/70 setting will work fine.

 

[dslywalker]

Good pump. Max pressure of 116 so a 50/70 setting will work fine.

thanx Cary and to the rest of you thanks..Should have this done in late Sept. I'll let you know how it works