plumbing in my new masterbath

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EFS

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Hello, we do not like the plumbing solution that has been put in place for two sinks in our newly constructed master bathroom.
these are image while looking at the plumbing from the "back" . These are delivery lines and drainage for two sinks with wall mounted faucets:

master_bath_03.jpgmaster_bath_02.jpg

I would appreciate comments: is this install to code? I am in CT. Are there possible troubles that such installation may cause? (our concerns are mainly with so many connections and "dead ends" on delivery lines just asking for leaks) . I would have imagined that the drainage should go straight down and for some reason it goes "vertically" almost, but..... we are lame homeowners and not plumbers.
 

MTcummins

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Nothing looks against code, but I agree there are far too many fittings on those water pipes. Most of those are unnecessary, and the terminated water lines in between the 4 water risers are just confusing. Looks like the originally had both sinks plumbed on 1 set of water lines, then took that back out to put in another home run for the 2nd sink.

All those fittings shouldn't be a leak problem if they were properly installed, but there is more potential for leaks with a lot of fittings. The main thing I'd be worried about is that those fittings all reduce the flow rate in the piping. On your lavs, this won't be an issue if those are indeed home runs (come all the way from the basement), as they don't use that much water to start. If your shower has this many fittings, I'd be a little worried about flow rate to the shower, though really it probably won't be a problem there either, you just would have lower pressure than optimal.

Are your faucets wall mount? The stubouts seem very high, but about right if you have wall mount faucets.
 

Terry

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You have the wrong fitting for the cross.
It should be a fixture cross, not a wye cross. The wye cross creates an S trap.

The waste where the two meet should me minimum of 2".
If that is all done in 1.5", it doesn't meet code.

And the water? It's pretty hack.

abs_fixture_cross.jpg
 

EFS

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yes the faucet are wall-mounted.

For the "hack" delivery lines- shall we ask for these to be done again "from scratches" i.e. starting from the first floor to minimize the turns and bends?
 

MTcummins

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Oh, good catch Terry, I totally missed the double wye... that definitely needs to be replaced. As for the pipe, is that not 2"? It looks like 2" with 1.5" trap arms, but hard to tell for sure from the pic.

Whoever put that in thinks they're working with copper and that they need fittings every time the pipe bends. They probably have never worked with Pex before to do it like that, so I'd question if they really knew what they were doing to do it that way. Properly installed, there should usually be NO fittings between the connection to the main lines/manifold (in the basement or utility room or wherever they're coming from) and the connection to the copper stub-outs mounted to the wall for the wall mount faucets. Sometimes if you have to make a tight turn you'd use an elbow, but otherwise, there's no need for fittings between those two points. It is fairly important to minimize fittings in a Pex system to keep the flow rates adequate.

I'd certainly have those lines ripped out and replaced. And I'd probably get a new plumber to run them that's more experienced with Pex. Also, have that double wye taken out. Given that problem, I'd suggest you have another pro look over all the work this plumber did. Any pro should know that you can't use a wye to tie a trap arm into the drain...

Depending on what all is coming up on those other 2 vent lines, your 2" vent going up from where the 3 vents tie together might need to go up to a 3" vent as well. We can't tell that from these pictures though.
 

MTcummins

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And taking another closer look... I see that there's a bushing in the vent line, reducing it from 2" down to 1.5" going up out of the room. There's no way that's gonna cut it. It needs to be a 2", if not 3" (see above post) line coming up from that double santee fitting.
 

Gary Swart

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I would be suspect of the credentials of the "plumber" who did this work. This looks like the work of a handyman, AKA hack. Find a licensed plumber to redo this, and no pay until an inspector approves the work. You might be able to persuade the hack to return what you paid him by telling him if he doesn't return you money, you'll turn him in to the authorities for practicing without a license.
 

Geniescience

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it's level, unsloped, in a trap arm. One or both.

From what I can make out by seeing the photo, the arm needs a 1/4" slope which is missing. Without the slope your pipe collects a lot more gunk than with the slope. Then it drains slowly.

When the cross gets cut out and replaced this too is good to check.

Also this:
Above the "cross" that has been the center of attention, what is the upside-down double San Tee doing there. Upside down?
 

EFS

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this is correct- about the wires being not in a plane of the wall...

The "A" for plates is not for that plumber really- there were little plates (like the ones electrician uses) when he left- we asked for those big ones (per suggestion from our friend who knew more about plumbing than we did) and the plumber put them in after being asked for them.
 

hj

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For the vent, the double combo, (not a double san tee/cross), MUST be inverted. It would still not have been correct, but the double combo would have been a better fit for where the two drains meet and use the double "Y" and 1/8 bends for the vent. The wires are the proper distance from the surface so they do NOT need nail plates. I have NEVER used "squares" of metal as nail plates for my plumbing, but if I did, I would center them on the stud so they protected the pipe against "misnailing" on either side of the stud.

quote; (per suggestion from our friend who knew more about plumbing than we did) I suspect he does NOT know that much about plumbing, even if he knows more than you do. And if you had asked for them on the basis of HIS suggestion, I would have told HIM to put them in, because the ones I had used were the correct ones.

As for the water lines, he must had some tees he needed to get rid of because there is absolutely NO REASON for them to be used. The whole system is more complex than necessary. One of his problems is that he drilled the holes in the floor and walls BEFORE he figured out how he was going to run the piping, which is why he has "offsets" and "jump overs".
 
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EFS

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Quote: quote; (per suggestion from our friend who knew more about plumbing than we did) I suspect he does NOT know that much about plumbing, even if he knows more than you do. And if you had asked for them on the basis of HIS suggestion, I would have told HIM to put them in, because the ones I had used were the correct ones.

I did not get what you suggested: which ones are the correct ones: the big ones or the smaller were?
 

hj

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ANYTHING is correct as long as it covers where the pipe goes through the wood. "Teeny" ones are adequate for water lines, but we usually use 1 1/2"x5" ones for both water and drain lines. Those "huge" ones are "overkill" and do absolutely nothing the smaller ones would have.
 

EFS

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quote:"Find a licensed plumber to redo this, and no pay until an inspector approves the work. You might be able to persuade the hack to return what you paid him by telling him if he doesn't return you money, you'll turn him in to the authorities for practicing without a license. .."

well... the inspector was there already and approved it. And what do I do now?
 

EFS

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PS. The plumber who did the work has a valid CT license. We checked it.
 

MTcummins

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Wow, this passed!?!... this just illustrates once again how useless our permit system is these days...

As for what to do, I'll leave that to the more experienced plumbers who might have dealt with this kind of situation more than I have. There's no chance the inspectors around here would have passed that drain/vent system, at least not w/o "accidentally" dropping an envelope with a couple Benjamins in it.
 

Jadziedzic

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The larger nail plates are sometimes called "BOCA plates"; they are intended to be used on the bottom and top plate to guard against nail penetrations that might occur if someone decided to install a larger crown molding.
 

Geniescience

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.... and approved it. And what do I do now?

efs, fix the big things.
That is what you do now.
The big thing is the one thing about the fixture cross.


So what if the inspector overlooked it.
If you left it, you would have all the potential and real problems of S traps.
S traps: sometimes it's serious, sometimes it's not.
Why not get a more reliable drain system now?
So what if the inspector overlooked it.
It can happen.


Let the other comments remain as background information. The other comments are general remarks. Stop asking "what do I do?" Reading comprehension. You have already been told in every possible way that some things are just comments and some things are serious. Ask someone else to read it for you if you cannot figure out what is serious and what is not.
 

hj

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Often inspectors are plumbers who could not make it as plumbers so they get government jobs where they may NOT have to be competent. That "double fitting" is, and always has been, improper and illegal. Call the inspector and ask him if he missed it, so that he can reject it and have the installer replace it. If not, then get a "real" plumber to do it. The water piping is NOT illegal, just "shoddy workmanship" but if you get another plumber I would have him clean it up. It only has to be done in that room, NOT from the first floor up. I know a lot of plumbers who have "valid licenses" but would NEVER recommend them to ANY ONE.
 
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