Pipe and pressure tank size increase for more flow and consistency?

Discussion in 'Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice' started by Washer55, Feb 28, 2019.

  1. Washer55

    Washer55 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2016
    Location:
    Ontario
    I currently have a 20gal pressure tank for my well setup and find we don't have great pressure/flow in the house. There is 3/4 aquapex coming in from the polypipe to the tank, and then into the iron remover/softener. First question: what would I gain if I increased the tank to 30 or 40 gallons? Same pressure and less drops? Second question: would I get any noticeable flow rate going from 3/4" to 1" pex from the polypipe to the iron remover? It's 3/4" through the rest of the house up until the fixtures. Even if I keep the 3/4", someone put a sharkbite on a joint and also put a standard port valve in line. I plan to replace both regardless..

    Any advice would be appreciated.

    Thanks
     
  2. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2013
    Location:
    IL
    Pressure comes from the pump. Submersible pump? You may be able to turn up the pressure.

    For piping beyond the pressure tank, you can get pressure drop from small or clogged pipes. You can get pressure drops from cartridge filters. Do you have a cartridge filter? What is the iron remover? 10x54 inch tank with a controller, or what?

    A garden hose thread pressure gauge can be useful. Hook to a laundry tap or the drain for the water heater. See what that does when pressure seems low.
     
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  4. Washer55

    Washer55 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2016
    Location:
    Ontario
    Yep it's a submersible. We could turn up the pressure on the switch.

    Considering I have 3/4 through the house, is there any benefit to switching to 1" going into the tank and over to the iron remover? I'm kinda thinking no considering its then being pushed through the 10x54 iron remover and a 10x54 softener?
     
  5. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2013
    Location:
    IL
    I would get a GHT pressure gauge to quantify any pressure drops. Bigger pipes will not help with drops from the softener or iron filter, but usually the drops through both of them would drop less than 5 psi at 5 gpm.

    To increase the water pressure to 40/60, turn off the pump, and drain the pressure tank. Increase the air precharge to 38.

    On a typical pressure switch, to raise the pressure, turn the nut on the big spring 3.5 turns for each 10 psi you want to raise both the cut-in and cut out. Usually you don't change the nut on the small spring.

    After you turn things back on, you can adjust further. You could go to 45/65 or some such in a similar way. If the last few psi fill slowly, you should back the pressure back so there is enough margin. You probably won't have that problem.
     
  6. Washer55

    Washer55 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2016
    Location:
    Ontario
    Thanks I'll order up a gauge. It's likely the filters causing the biggest drop and I'll report back.
     
  7. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2013
    Location:
    IL
    Run the tub, and see what effect throwing each into bypass has on the downstream pressure.
     
  8. Washer55

    Washer55 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2016
    Location:
    Ontario
    I do know my valve at tub is rated 6.5gpm on the spout. I see between 3.5 and 4 on the softener controller when only the tub is running.
     
  9. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2004
    Occupation:
    Retired Systems engineer for defense industry.
    Location:
    New England
    A concept you need to understand...there's a difference in dynamic pressure and static pressure. The static pressure will be the same whether you have a pipe the size of a soda straw or a fire hose. It's when you start to flow the water through the pipes is where you can notice some significant friction, and dynamic pressure drop at your outlet. FWIW, 3/4" pex for a whole house supply is probably not great. But, if your well is low producing, and our pressure tank is large enough, it may never be a major issue since the pressure tank will act like a buffer, until you exhaust it. You could also notice a difference in pressure if you have lots of stories to your dwelling since the pressure at the top will drop because of gravity at 0.43#/foot. So, it does depend on where you measure...at different elevations, you'll get different readings if your gauge is sensitive enough.

    A 20g tank won't hold all that much.
     
  10. Washer55

    Washer55 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2016
    Location:
    Ontario
    Thanks that is helpful info. I have a flowing well so lots of water I just need a way to get better flow and pressure to the big tub in far end of house. Rest of the house is fine. I ran a typical tub and shower yesterday and used close to 60 gallons according to my softener....so having a 20gal tank is not near enough buffer!

    I'm considering at least a 44gal, should I consider bigger?

    And is there any value in going to 1" pex to the tank and over to softeners? It's only about 10ft of pipe.
     
  11. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2013
    Location:
    IL
    Pressure drops add. Value is subjective. What is the value of 1 psi at 5 gpm to you?

    http://www.pressure-drop.com/Online-Calculator/
    Note the group drop-down-list which defaults to straight pipe, but also includes elbows and more.
     
  12. valveman

    valveman Cary Austin Staff Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2006
    Occupation:
    Pump Controls Technician
    Location:
    Lubbock, Texas
    A 44 gallon tank only holds 10 gallons of water. Larger pressure tank will only keep the system at low pressure for longer time. Turn up the pressure switch. Then adding a CSV will keep the pressure strong and constant 50 PSI instead of continually going from 60 to 40 over and over. Might even need to go to 50/70 on the switch and set the CSV for 60 to make up for pressure losses through the filter and small pipes.

     
  13. Washer55

    Washer55 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2016
    Location:
    Ontario
    That was very helpful! I don't know anything about these but it seems like it could be the logical choice when I need to fill the big tub and not have such a pressure drop. My tub fill and shower afterwards is 50-60gal total.

    I have a pressure gauge on order so it'll be interesting to see how much pressure I have currently.
     
  14. Washer55

    Washer55 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2016
    Location:
    Ontario
    What are the disadvantages or risks with using a CSV? Will this stress the pump, tank or the lines if it's regulating the pressure behind the valve? They look interesting but I'd like to understand the pros and cons before installing.

    Thanks
     
  15. Brian94

    Brian94 New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2019
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    The only risk is that I didn't switch sooner. It's nice when I take a shower and have consistantly 50psi vs bouncing from 60 to 40psi. I have noticed no issues with my CSV, it is a little challenging to get dialed in just right.
     
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