Dunbar Plumbing
Master Plumber
Have to respond to RUGGED
48 hours was when I was done after starting but it was not a continous 48 hours on the project. Most of the time was spent heading to Home Depot looking at the different fittings and working out the puzzle. I did burn some gas on at least 6 trips. I was also messing with the faucet which did not work out the best(I had another thread on that one). The final outcome was that the plumbing is exactly the same as it was except for that P trap extenson which I did not really like and that is why I posted here.
If you had fun, that's all that matters.
I never knew that the wye was not a good thing as this was how the house was plumbed originally. So, my mission was to keep the basic setup the same. It has been 24 years with the old sink and disposal. I also feel the original plumber was right in not running the dishwasher drain to the disposal as it shortens the life of the disposal.
If you have an inexpensive disposal, yes. The reason it's necessary to connect to those disposals is to keep the chamber clean, free flowing and people do not make a habit of running water when grinding vegetables for minutes after grinding.
Any stainless steel chambered disposal wrecks your thinking that it's harmful for the unit.
The air gap. I had a sewer blockage last year in which when it backed up high enough in the house it came out the first floor tub and toilet. So, in looking at the whole picture of my first floor, the next higher drain is the wash tub in the laundry room, followed by the bathroom sink, followed by the kitchen sink and the highest would be the washer drain. So, the chances seem very slim that this would backup to the kitchen sink before we would discover it. Then tonight I took a look at my dishwasher manual and install instructions. It gives 4 options for the drain, 2 with air gap to sink or disposal and 2 without air gap to sink and disposal. On the no air gap option it says that the drain must be connected at least 20 inches higher than the floor the dishwasher sits on. It mentions no high loop. I am not sure what it means other than there might be a back valve somewhere in the dishwasher.
The next question is what really is the problem with waste water backing up into the dishwasher? To me it is no different than what happened when it came out the tub and toilet. It was a mess to clean up. I assume you could run the dishwasher a few times and sanitize the system. I do see that the air gap which is higher than the sink itself will always protect the dishwasher, but again why does it have to be protected when waste water is flowing over the kitchen sink at this point to the kitchen floor. To me having to cut a hole in the sink or counter for this air gap seems like over kill just to protect the dishwasher.
Do you wash your dishes out of your toilet?
Of course not. That dishwasher is designed to produce sterile utensils that allow you to eat off of them when it is finished.
That plumbing system can clog anywhere in line and clog, back up into that kitchen sink. Go to plumbing forums across the internet and type in word jumbles of "water backing into dishwasher" and you'll find that same hack way of connecting to the waste system.
I'm allowed to use the words "hack" because I'm specifically trained as a licensed Master Plumber and certified Backflow License holder to back up what I say. That drain off the dishwasher is a direct connection to the most vile stuff you never want to see again, and the first time it backs up in that sink, the path of least resistance and fluid dynamics PROVES it is heading to the dishwasher.
People have gotten sick from backups into dishwashers. That stuff was never supposed to be there to begin with. It's a contaminate.
That "backwater valve" is not foolproof, it is a device that a shrimp tail can easily malfunction the device and deem it defective quite quickly.
When you think about ease of installation, I'm thinking about how to protect the public with my licenses and ability to provide plumbing in a safe and sanitary way.
You deem the Air Gap useless, I deem it necessary as it protects you every damn time you step outside your home to go with your loved ones out to eat.
I'm "trying" to convey that message to you down to your private
domain, your kingdom, your castle. "You" might know to check the
bottom of that dishwasher every single time to make sure it chucked the full cycle out of wastewater, or didn't roll back into the unit, but your wife or your kids may not, and who would expect this?
I swear if I had a dollar for every damn time I saw what the husband does to the wife by their misdeeds, it would call for divorce with the dangers they indirectly expose to their loved ones just by not understanding the logic to why things are done for a reason.
My last comment is that maybe I am a closet plumber as I really like to read these forums regularly. Terry Love is a plumber by trade and sponsors this site and it would seem that DIY people make the most use of these forums. So, someday you real plumbers might have to fix our DIY pig slop, but for me I had a blast doing the work and hopefully these forums minimized the slop.
Nothing wrong with your drive to DIY, but it is at least my duty to educate those who don't know the codes, don't know the hazards of situations they get themselves into.
Some codes I've mentioned may not even be required in your state, but my logic is spot on to your situation whether it is inscribed in a book or not. That is where my knowledge has its true value, and people that visit this thread whether they're members or passer-bys, understand that there's a very valid reason for my statements:
Protecting the Health of the Nation.
Tom
Air Gaps are one of the most important devices in the Plumbing industry today, has no moving parts and offers the best protection in the event of backflow/backsiphonage.
It uses the physical separation of the free atmosphere to protect from reversal. Nothing offers anything that can compete with this.