Maximizing Salt Efficiency on Over Sized Softener

[hypnosis4u2nv]

Been lurking around for the last few weeks educating myself with ins and outs of a water softener system. As the title states, looking to maximize the efficiency of my system if possible.

14 years ago I went from being a life long apartment dweller to a home owner, which meant I had limited knowledge in taking care of a home and no DIY skills under my belt. With the house utilizing a well, the first thing that my wife and I noticed was how hard the water was taking showers and washing our clothes. After asking several friends in the area about what we could do to remedy the problem, they all recommended we look into installing a water softener. Looking around we were immediately attracted to Culligan as they seemed to provide the "expert" opinion on servicing drinking water. After a home consult, we settled on their equipment and $2000 later, we were enjoying the water again. About 7 years later into the life of the softener, the backwash drain started leaking water, so we called Culligan since no one else can service their equipment. About $500 and a new seal pack rebuild later, softener was working fine again. 2 years ago, we started noticing the hard water feeling when showering and washing our clothing. After a little Google-fu, my inspection revealed that the water in the brine tank was high (up to the float), which meant I was having an issue with Brine Draw/Fill. After taking apart the injector housing (they call it the eductor), I found the metal mesh filter was completely obliterated and the pieces were obstructing the nozzle. Called my local Culligan dealer for the parts and was quoted $150 for the eductor kit! I was able to find another Culligan deal in another County who sold me the kit for $30. Probably could of reused the old nozzles and tried to find the metal mesh filter for a lot less, but $30 wasn't a bad deal just to replace everything new and get the softener working again. Now 3 weeks ago the system started to error out during regeneration, and researching the fault codes I determined either the motor was failing or the piston was getting stuck due to a sticky seal. Figuring that I would probably get robbed by Culligan ordering a piston and valve rebuild kit, along with a motor, and taking into consideration that the resin tank at this point in its life was due for a rebed, I decided to throw out the unit all together and get something more user and DIY friendly.

After much research and using calculators, I determined that the best unit for my needs was a Fleck 5600SXT 48,000gr. Only problem though, was that I had height clearance limits since the old Culligan resin tank was 9"x48" and the new one was 10"x54". I found a 40,000gr unit would work at 10"x44", but when I called a vendor they offered a pretty good deal with a small up cost on a 64,000gr unit with fine mesh resin utilizing a 12"x48" tank. So I ordered that unit, knowing that I'll be using more salt than I need, but the unit being future proof. There's only one thing that I failed to do prior to sizing up unit and that was to conduct a hardness test. Immediately after this unit arrived we were impressed with it's water softening ability - our showers felt so much better and clothes were washing cleaner and feeling softer. I ordered a Hach 5b water hardness kit to check hardness coming out after the softener, but most importantly, what the hardness was coming from the well head. You see, in the last 14 years of owning the Culligan, I NEVER checked the hardness and assumed it would be the same. Boy was I shocked to find and increase of 7gpg, as the Culligan was set for 17gpg and the Hach test showed a 23-24gpg result. So it seemed that either my Culligan softener was bleeding out hard water as it exhausted the resin more quickly or the resin was damaged not able to treat as much water - or worse a combination of both. Lesson learned, in the future I'm going to test the hardness levels more often to make sure the unit is set to properly treat the water and that it is actually treating the water.

Currently my goal is to try to maximize and tweak - if possible - my salt consumption per regeneration while staying within limits of treating my water. Since I'm on a well fed water supply, the consensus is to regenerate every 7 days or less to prevent bacteria growth and channeling, so I'm unsure if I want to squeeze another day or two before regeneration. With the settings I am about to post below, I have a few more days of treatment capacity when the 7 day override triggers a regeneration. I have 4 people in my home - two of which are children approaching their teens, and an unoccupied apartment. Current average daily water usage is about 120 gallons. It's almost unlikely this unit will ever reach the reserve capacity before the 7 day override for regeneration, although would be perfect if one or two adults were added to equation.

Water test below:

Hardness = 24
Iron = 0.1
PH = 7.7
Total Alkalinity = 165
Copper = 0.1
Total Chlorine = 0.5
Free Chlorine = 0.5

Fleck Settings:
DF = gal
VT = ST1b
CT = fd
NT = 1
C = 40
H = 30 (24 + 5 for Iron and a little room for hardness increase)
RS = SF 10
DO = 7
BW = 10
BD = 60
RR = 10
BF = 8
FM = Po.7

To recap, the system is a Fleck 5600SXT 64,000gr with fine mesh resin and no gravel under-bedding treating well water with very little iron. Would love to hear your thoughts on getting even better salt efficiency from this unit.

 

[Reach4]

Your softener is not at all oversized. With your little bit of iron, I think you can expand the DO setting. Presuming you want low salt use, and your BLFC is 0.5 (common for 5600SXT) I would go like this:

System info (not programmed)
salt lb/cuft = 6.75 ; A choice ( efficiency vs capacity)
BLFC = 0.5 ; Brine Refill rate GPM
cubic ft resin = 2 ; ft3 resin = (nominal grains)/32,000
Raw hardness = 30 ; including any compensation
People = 3.5 ; gallons affects reserve calc
Estimated gal/day = 210 ; 60 gal per person typical calc
Estimated days/regen = 7.00 ; Computed days ignoring reserve

Fleck 5600SXT Settings:
DF = Gal ; Units
VT = dF1b ; Downflw/Upflw, Single Backwash
CT = Fd ; Meter Delayed regen trigger
NT = 1 ; Number of tanks
C = 43.1 ; capacity in 1000 grains
H = 30 ; Hardness-- compensate if needed
RS = rc ; rc says use gallons vs percent
RC = 210 ; Reserve capacity gallons
DO = 14 ; Day Override (28 if no iron)
RT = 2:00 ; Regen time (default 2 AM)
BW = 5 ; Backwash (minutes)
Bd = 60 ; Brine draw minutes
RR = 5 ; Rapid Rinse minutes
BF = 9 ; Brine fill minutes
FM = usually t0.7 ; flow meter, make note of what is there

===========================
Here are some C, BF pairs you could choose from:

lb/cuft ; C= ; BF=

5.250 ; 37.2 ; 7
6.000 ; 40.0 ; 8
6.750 ; 43.1 ; 9
7.500 ; 46.1 ; 10
8.250 ; 48.9 ; 11

 

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[hypnosis4u2nv]

Your softener is not at all oversized. With your little bit of iron, I think you can expand the DO setting. Presuming you want low salt use, and your BLFC is 0.5 (common for 5600SXT) I would go like this:

System info (not programmed)
salt lb/cuft = 6.75 ; A choice ( efficiency vs capacity)
BLFC = 0.5 ; Brine Refill rate GPM
cubic ft resin = 2 ; ft3 resin = (nominal grains)/32,000
Raw hardness = 30 ; including any compensation
People = 3.5 ; gallons affects reserve calc
Estimated gal/day = 210 ; 60 gal per person typical calc
Estimated days/regen = 7.00 ; Computed days ignoring reserve

Fleck 5600SXT Settings:
DF = Gal ; Units
VT = dF1b ; Downflw/Upflw, Single Backwash
CT = Fd ; Meter Delayed regen trigger
NT = 1 ; Number of tanks
C = 43.1 ; capacity in 1000 grains
H = 30 ; Hardness-- compensate if needed
RS = rc ; rc says use gallons vs percent
RC = 210 ; Reserve capacity gallons
DO = 14 ; Day Override (28 if no iron)
RT = 2:00 ; Regen time (default 2 AM)
BW = 5 ; Backwash (minutes)
Bd = 60 ; Brine draw minutes
RR = 5 ; Rapid Rinse minutes
BF = 9 ; Brine fill minutes
FM = usually t0.7 ; flow meter, make note of what is there

===========================
Here are some C, BF pairs you could choose from:

lb/cuft ; C= ; BF=

5.250 ; 37.2 ; 7
6.000 ; 40.0 ; 8
6.750 ; 43.1 ; 9
7.500 ; 46.1 ; 10
8.250 ; 48.9 ; 11

Thanks for your response Reach4! It's good to see that I could extend the Day Override past 7 days on a well system as I was considering raising the days to keep the system from regenerating unnecessarily if it still had ample capacity left. My concern was bacteria growth and channeling which I read from some threads on this forum and others. I didn't know how much of an issue it could pose if I tweaked the DO setting by a day or two.

And yes, using the current hardness settings brings the capacity more in line for my needs. That extra 7gpg added almost an additional 2000 grains daily to my requirements! I'm actually glad that I did go with the larger unit instead of the 40,000gr one.

I noticed that you suggest the BW = 5 and RR = 5, even though both those settings are set at 10 on my unit. Short of utilizing less water to complete those cycles, is there any benefit/disadvantage using the shorter times? Logic tells me that the longer those run, the "cleaner" the system gets flushing out the bad stuff on the resin.

May give the C=43 ; BF=9 or C=46 ; BF=10 -- a shot if I have no problems running the DO at 14 days on a well system.

Also, maybe you can shed some light since it was brought up - my system uses the paddle wheel style meter instead of the turbine one. My old Culligan also used the turbine type meter. Is there a preference between one or the other? I honestly didn't know about the two different styles until researching the programming options for the Fleck 5600SXT and most retailers don't mention which one they ship with their systems.

 

[Bannerman]

You mention your water is supplied by a well. Assuming this is your own private well, where is the Chlorine coming from as you didn't specify any other water treatment? The presence of Chlorine will typically oxidize Ferrous iron, converting it to Ferric iron which then can be easily filtered out and will not consume softener capacity.

The BF setting recommended by R4 is based on an assumption that there is a 0.5 gpm BLFC restrictor in-place. As you didn't specify the BLFC rate, that flow rate should be verified. The BLFC (brine line flow control) and DLFC (drain line flow control) rates are often stated on a label situated nearby to the brine connection.

 

[Reach4]

Assuming this is your own private well, where is the Chlorine coming from as you didn't specify any other water treatment?

Oooh... I missed that.

 

[hypnosis4u2nv]

BLFC is .5GPM / 1.5lb Salt per Min


Bannerman, interesting you bring up the Chlorine as I have two thoughts on that.

One is that there is some residual left in the well from a long time ago when I shocked it. At the time, I had to test the water every 2 years for coliform in order to maintain my permit for the apartment. Of the two conducted in the test (I don't remember which), one came back positive. I shocked the well and my household plumbing and retested with negative results. Since then, I installed a UV light filter after the softener to address any recurrence of bacteria in the well. The cause was never determined, could be from a septic system nearby or bad cap on the well (which I have since replaced). I now test the water from inside the home after the UV light, since I have a normally closed solenoid valve which shuts the water off in the event the bulb goes bad or power outage therefore not letting the water go past untreated.

The second thought is that I had the water test down at a pool and spa store, so maybe contaminated or it's the minimum reading they can give with the water sample I took them.

I'm a few months away from having to do the bacteria test again on the water, at which time I intend to do the entire gamut of tests using a pre-treated water sample. If that sample comes back positive, I will have to address my options then as to what more I can do to prevent contaminated water from making its way to ingestion.

 

[Reach4]

I'm a few months away from having to do the bacteria test again on the water, at which time I intend to do the entire gamut of tests using a pre-treated water sample. If that sample comes back positive, I will have to address my options then as to what more I can do to prevent contaminated water from making its way to ingestion.

If you care about the coliform test results, care needs to be taken in sampling. http://www.ugra.org/images/pdf/sampling_handout.pdf is one description of a method to avoid contaminating the sample

 

[Bannerman]

Chlorine is highly reactive so I would expect any residual would have evaporated within days of treatment. In addition, regular water consumption would further reduce the Chlorine level. The quantity of chlorine you report is higher than residual levels tested at some of the wells which supply my town's municipal system.

Pool/Spa testing is inappropriate for water to be consumed. National Labs are consistently recommeded on this forum. http://watercheck.myshopify.com/?aff=5

UV treatment requires the water to be extremely clean and filtered to be effective and reliable otherwise, pathogens can remain within the shadows cast by microscopic contaminates, thereby reducing their exposure to UV light. As you have previously experienced an actual bacteria issue, you may wish to consider Hydrogen Peroxide or Chlorine injection followed by a backwashing carbon system prior to the softener. The UV could still be used for additional safety, belt and suspenders. H2O2 or chlorine should also eliminate any iron removal by the softener.

A further item to consider a simple sediment filter after the softener. A gravel underbed is always recommended as it not only allows more consistent flow and utilization of the resin bed, it also reduces the potential of resin loss into the plumbing system if the bottom distributor should fail. As your softener is not equipped with an underbed, you are fully reliant on the bottom screen to prevent resin loss to your plumbing system. As fine mesh resin will have higher flow restriction compared to standard mesh resin, the bottom distributor will have additional load placed on it, thereby higher potental for failure. A sediment filter cartridge after the softener would act as a safety device to prevent resin loss from making a mess throughout the entire plumbing system.

 

[hypnosis4u2nv]

The chlorine is indeed odd, unless its possible someone else shocked their well nearby and it somehow leached into my well. Not too concerned because I can't see chlorine in the system unless it's intentionally put there, so I'm scratching that off to a error on their part.

I plan on getting the National Labs test on the water, for now the goal is getting the softener dialed in hence why I used the Pool/Spa and not drop another C note.

Unfortunately, space is a big issue in the crawl space the water supply is coming into the house from. Effectively, the water softener is standing in what is the closet of the apartment and beyond that is the crawl space which has the pressure tank, well pump controller, Lakos Sand Separator, UV light and the 10"x5" 5 micron Big Blue filter prior to the softener. That filter seems to be working as I haven't had any issues with the bacteria since installing the UV unit, getting those tests performed at the proper Lab (Town requirement).

As far as the lack of under-bedding, yes, it's a concern. I could add gravel to the tank in the immediate future, and if I'm correct, if I add it on top of the resin it would work its way and settle to the bottom during the backwash cycle.

Again, this was stuff I was never really prepared for when I purchased this home. All this home had when purchased was a simple 10"x2.5" sediment filter which constantly needed changing. Considering the amount of money spent on equipment, upkeep costs and repairs (huge $$ when our pump went and took with it the wiring) I'd avoid purchasing a home with well water down the road.

I appreciate all your inputs!

 

[hypnosis4u2nv]

If you care about the coliform test results, care needs to be taken in sampling. http://www.ugra.org/images/pdf/sampling_handout.pdf is one description of a method to avoid contaminating the sample

I always treat those samples very carefully, using their testing containers and keeping my hands and other things away from the water entering it.

 

[Reach4]

I always treat those samples very carefully, using their testing containers and keeping my hands and other things away from the water entering it.

Do you sterilize the faucet properly?

You might try a more rigorous sanitizing. https://terrylove.com/forums/index....izing-extra-attention-to-4-inch-casing.65845/

 

[hypnosis4u2nv]

Usually take the samples from my tub spout to avoid aerators, running the water for a couple of minutes before collecting it. Thanks for the links to well sanitizing, there's alot more info than what the town and water testing place gave me.

 

[hypnosis4u2nv]

I hate to revive an old thread, but I'm looking for a little help with the unit.

I have septic fields, and I don't know if it's coincidence or not, but I've been noticing the ground where my septic fields are have been wet with that septic smell.

While I think my fields may be failing, I'm trying to cut down on excessive water use.

Based on the these settings,
BW = 10
BD = 60
RR = 10

How much water is being spent on the regen cycle and can I adjust the settings to reduce the water consumption?

 

[ditttohead]

Backwash and rapid rinse can technically be changed to 0 minutes. If you consider some of the original automatic units they did not have anything other than a brine draw cycle. The resin would last sometimes for 20 years, other times 5 years... regardless, if your fields are failing and you want to minimize water going into them, especially high tds/or solids, you may want to consider a "French Drain" for some of your waste. Check with your local codes but softening is fairly easy to do. Others have done it with their laundry and since you have soft water, you can usually get away with using very little soap unless you are a diesel engine mechanic. . Put a strainer on your garbage disposal drain and dispose of as much solids as you can, I am sure others will have some great advice. My expertise is limited when it comes to septic systems, others here will have far more knowledge.

 

[hypnosis4u2nv]

My septic system has a pump out box to my fields, so normally it isn't much of an issue. I'm guessing that a continuous pump out is over loading the fields at specific junction in the fields. Can't do much at this point because of the cold weather and snow, so this would have to be something I have someone look into repairing in the spring. All I can do is limit the amount of water going in so it can have a chance to dissipate.


Is it possible to change the settings to BW= 5 and RR=5, this way it would cut down on the water usage during this period in half and not have a bad effect on the system?

 

[ditttohead]

Totally fine. I would reduce the RR to 1 minute. Backwash at very low rates for a few months is fine. Don't be afraid to drop it to 1 or 2 minutes for a short amount of time.