Jeff H Young
In the Trades
There you go thats the reason! but we never dream of plumbing that way so dosent register. wonder if legal in TX ?
Kitchen Sink Plumbing Config...Good, Bad, and/or Ugly?
- Thread starter TXCajun
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Yep, that's the question. I haven't taken a bad attitude with them and certainly haven't told them they are wrong, but I have told them I have to be shown the code, or exemption, allowing this. If this is not code compliant, things will have to change.
Thinking back when ground was about to be broken for the beginning of this house build, there were lots of meetings regarding the plumbing. I simply do not recall the specifics. I do know that everything was approved and since then, at every stage, the plumbing tests and inspections have passed.
I'll let you know what more I'm told, now.
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I am now less skeptical that you were not just being told a story.
I posted the picture to let a lot of plumbers take a look.
Some from Canada had seen it before, and many hadn't. I've been getting the "what is that thing?" and also, "sure we do that here."
Some plumbers in Texas had seen it, and most haven't.
One comment was that an inspector wanted the tailpiece to the sink to be no longer than 30" and run with 2"
That seems long.
Some from Canada had seen it before, and many hadn't. I've been getting the "what is that thing?" and also, "sure we do that here."
Some plumbers in Texas had seen it, and most haven't.
One comment was that an inspector wanted the tailpiece to the sink to be no longer than 30" and run with 2"
That seems long.
Terry,
Thanks for doing that.
Did the ones in TX happen to mention the code/exemption that allows this? I'm guessing not, but figure it doesn't hurt to ask.
TXCajun
I wasn't getting any code references. I have gotten 118 comments so far.
At least the way yours is set up, you can run a snake from the cleanout there. All kitchen sinks should have a 2" cleanout.
..."can run a snake from the cleanout there."... Well, I suppose I'll gladly take that as a partial victory!
It does have to go through the trap. Not the best option. Didn't you say there was a cleanout on the lower floor or something. I wish they would supply a drawing of what they did.
I too wish they'd provided drawings.
I understand what you're saying about the cleanout right there with the trap.
There is a kitchen sink cleanout on this same floor level. It is in the kitchen cabinet wall adjacent to the sink wall. This was installed when they first ran the plumbing, before walls were closed in, before the cabinets were in, etc.
They are telling me that the one you see in the photo is an additional cleanout included when they installed the sink and the plumbing in the cabinet box. They had installed the sink and this plumbing under the sink a couple of days before I made my original forum post.
Here's the latest info coming from the plumber:
1) He's saying I can do an online search for "UPC code for p-trap arm for 2". Also, that if the distance was more than 5' to the vent, they would have enlarged the p-trap and arm to 3" which could extend to 10'.
2) My builder says he wasn't given the code number but that it will say "maximum length 5' for 2" trap arm to vent".
3) I was also reminded that it was inspected before sheetrock.
Maybe I'm missing something, but I am not understanding how his explanation addresses the "24" or less" rule regarding the distance from the bottom of the sink drain opening to the p-trap weir. I really don't understand much of what he's referencing.
I would be most appreciative for anyone willing to help me understand what he's talking about and how, if at all, it addresses the "24-inches or less" rule. (Frankly, it rather irritates me that the plumber didn't see fit to provide the code reference number(s).)
Thanks!
1) He's saying I can do an online search for "UPC code for p-trap arm for 2". Also, that if the distance was more than 5' to the vent, they would have enlarged the p-trap and arm to 3" which could extend to 10'.
2) My builder says he wasn't given the code number but that it will say "maximum length 5' for 2" trap arm to vent".
3) I was also reminded that it was inspected before sheetrock.
Maybe I'm missing something, but I am not understanding how his explanation addresses the "24" or less" rule regarding the distance from the bottom of the sink drain opening to the p-trap weir. I really don't understand much of what he's referencing.
I would be most appreciative for anyone willing to help me understand what he's talking about and how, if at all, it addresses the "24-inches or less" rule. (Frankly, it rather irritates me that the plumber didn't see fit to provide the code reference number(s).)
Thanks!
wwhitney
In the Trades
1) Are you in a part of TX subject to the UPC, rather than the IPC?
2) 5' maximum for a 2" trap arm is indeed the UPC requirement, while IPC is 8'.
3) Immaterial. Passed inspection means "no code violations found," not "no code violations present." If you've found a violation, they need to fix it. And so far no one has explained why the trap below the floor isn't a violation. [Because it is a violation.]
The discussion about trap arm length refers to the horizontal length downstream of the trap. Your concerns are about the trap location in relation to the sink outlet, the upstream side of the trap. So they haven't addressed your concerns.
BTW, the UPC citation for maximum vertical distance between the sink outlet and the trap is here (a link to the California version of the UPC, because up.codes only lists the IPC for Texas):
https://up.codes/viewer/california/ca-plumbing-code-2019/chapter/10/traps-and-interceptors#1001.2
"The vertical distance between a fixture outlet and the trap weir shall be as short as practicable, but in no case shall the tail piece from a fixture exceed 24 inches (610 mm) in length"
To put it succinctly, they need to respond to "The current kitchen trap location exceeds the maximum 24" vertical distance from the sink outlet to the trap per UPC 1001.2. Please fix this violation or provide a code citation showing an exception to UPC 1001.2."
Cheers, Wayne
2) 5' maximum for a 2" trap arm is indeed the UPC requirement, while IPC is 8'.
3) Immaterial. Passed inspection means "no code violations found," not "no code violations present." If you've found a violation, they need to fix it. And so far no one has explained why the trap below the floor isn't a violation. [Because it is a violation.]
The discussion about trap arm length refers to the horizontal length downstream of the trap. Your concerns are about the trap location in relation to the sink outlet, the upstream side of the trap. So they haven't addressed your concerns.
BTW, the UPC citation for maximum vertical distance between the sink outlet and the trap is here (a link to the California version of the UPC, because up.codes only lists the IPC for Texas):
https://up.codes/viewer/california/ca-plumbing-code-2019/chapter/10/traps-and-interceptors#1001.2
"The vertical distance between a fixture outlet and the trap weir shall be as short as practicable, but in no case shall the tail piece from a fixture exceed 24 inches (610 mm) in length"
To put it succinctly, they need to respond to "The current kitchen trap location exceeds the maximum 24" vertical distance from the sink outlet to the trap per UPC 1001.2. Please fix this violation or provide a code citation showing an exception to UPC 1001.2."
Cheers, Wayne
Wayne,
My region is subject to IPC.
The distinction you made between "downstream" and "upstream" was particularly helpful.
I'm not letting this go. The plumber is going to have to fix it or provide the code/exception citation. I like your suggested wording.
Thank you for helping me work through this.
Kind Regards,
TXCajun
My region is subject to IPC.
The distinction you made between "downstream" and "upstream" was particularly helpful.
I'm not letting this go. The plumber is going to have to fix it or provide the code/exception citation. I like your suggested wording.
Thank you for helping me work through this.
Kind Regards,
TXCajun
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