Kitchen Sink Plumbing Config...Good, Bad, and/or Ugly?

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TXCajun

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Yeah, that's what he meant. I'd say it's a small point and would require repairing the floor of the cabinet, so not really worth. Would have been nice, though.

Your drawing is basically correct, what you called a "wye" is really a sanitary-tee. And if you have a trap adapter at the sanitary-tee, and use a tubular trap, there's no really need for a separate cleanout. It's easy enough to remove the tubular trap and access the drain through the trap adapter / sanitary-tee.

Cheers, Wayne

Got it! I'll search those parts so that I know exactly what I'll be asking for. Thank you very much.
 

Reach4

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Think ahead about a garbage disposal, unless you are confident you will not want one. The reason for having the trap adapter low is to allow space. In this picture, the trap is still much lower than a disposal needs. By having the trap higher, you get more useful storage space.

index.php


If the hole through the floor of the cabinet were closer to the wall, it would interfere with storage less.

The common way to vent a drain under a window is to have the vent pipe along the side of the window with the santee under it. The trap arm goes through the wall horizontally to a bend that enters the back of the cabinet. At that point, there is a trap adapter. The total length from the U of the P-trap to the santee is considered so it does not exceed the limit.

10836-824f935e01ad644fb366a8e2cd38825f.jpg
 
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Jeff H Young

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TX Cajun, I hope things get better on this
Want to tell you I understand where you are coming from and You seem very quality oriented and been involved in projects even though perhaps not so hands on with all trades. Sounds as if this project was approached in a verry good manner making this all more unlikely and harder to understand.
My comment on opt out of inspections was to do with rural areas might have been just AZ not necessarily just cheaping out . never did hear though if this is remote area where not too many contractors are available.
Techniques they are using I'm not familiar with, I've actually learned a lot on websites about regional tricks code differences some aren't even quite legal but widespread.
Evidently correct me if I'm wrong a trap is beneath floor ? and the open tee that we see is not for an AAV but a clean out? then it makes a little sense because an AAV or a vent wouldn't be coming off a trap. there must be reason it was plumbed this way? I'm all ears.
 

TXCajun

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Think ahead about a garbage disposal, unless you are confident you will not want one. The reason for having the trap adapter low is to allow space. In this picture, the trap is still much lower than a disposal needs. By having the trap higher, you get more useful storage space.

index.php


If the hole through the floor of the cabinet were closer to the wall, it would interfere with storage less.

The common way to vent a drain under a window is to have the vent pipe along the side of the window with the santee under it. The trap arm goes through the wall horizontally to a bend that enters the back of the cabinet. At that point, there is a trap adapter. The total length from the U of the P-trap to the santee is considered so it does not exceed the limit.

10836-824f935e01ad644fb366a8e2cd38825f.jpg

Super helpful explanation and photo! I am certain about my decision to go without the disposal, this time. Yep, I'm unhappy about the interference with storage space.
 

TXCajun

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TX Cajun, I hope things get better on this
Want to tell you I understand where you are coming from and You seem very quality oriented and been involved in projects even though perhaps not so hands on with all trades. Sounds as if this project was approached in a verry good manner making this all more unlikely and harder to understand.
My comment on opt out of inspections was to do with rural areas might have been just AZ not necessarily just cheaping out . never did hear though if this is remote area where not too many contractors are available.
Techniques they are using I'm not familiar with, I've actually learned a lot on websites about regional tricks code differences some aren't even quite legal but widespread.
Evidently correct me if I'm wrong a trap is beneath floor ? and the open tee that we see is not for an AAV but a clean out? then it makes a little sense because an AAV or a vent wouldn't be coming off a trap. there must be reason it was plumbed this way? I'm all ears.

You are right...Plumbing and electricity are nothing I ever DIY. Well, I once helped with a wax ring and seating a toilet. Once. Got it done and it was a good seal, but that involved lots of cussing and it wasn't pretty. And, since all of the plumbing in my past projects looked like what I was used to and never had a (noticeable) problem, I never felt compelled to give anything the stinkeye.

My property is in a rural area, but there are plenty of contractors. Right now, home building is on fire and there is way more work than these guys can do. It's crazy busy.

As far as I can tell, everything the plumbers have done has been code compliant, passed all the tests, and passed inspection at each stage. That is until this plumbing that just went in under the sink, specifically what is in the cabinet. The inspector has not been out for that, yet.

**********

Here's what my builder just reported from the plumbing supervisor regarding his answer to my questions:

"The KS drain is plumbed like a shower drain, the trap arm goes to the wall with the vent. The cleanout is located at the bottom of that wall of other kitchen cabinets. It is plumbed per code. No AAV needed. It is called a deep seal trap and no p trap needed in KS cabinet."

So, everybody here... Thoughts? (This is interesting but wearing me down.)

Thanks!

P.S. I just received another clarification, that being that the pipe under the cabinet that was looking like consideration for an AAV is actually going to be the cleanout for the plumbing under the sink.
 
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wwhitney

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"The KS drain is plumbed like a shower drain, the trap arm goes to the wall with the vent. The cleanout is located at the bottom of that wall of other kitchen cabinets. It is plumbed per code. No AAV needed. It is called a deep seal trap and no p trap needed in KS cabinet."

[. . .]

P.S. I just received another clarification, that being that the pipe under the cabinet that was looking like consideration for an AAV is actually going to be the cleanout for the plumbing under the sink.

What jurisdiction are you in within Texas? I would double check that the jurisdiction has not amended IPC 1002.1, and assuming not, simply reply with "The proposed layout does not comply with IPC 1002.1, in particular 'The vertical distance from the fixture outlet to the trap weir shall not exceed 24 inches (610 mm)'. Please provide a code compliant plumbing installation per our contractual agreement." Or words to that effect. Although perhaps that is a bit too blunt, I don't know.

Cheers, Wayne
 

Reach4

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What jurisdiction are you in within Texas? I would double check that the jurisdiction has not amended IPC 1002.1, and assuming not, simply reply with "The proposed layout does not comply with IPC 1002.1, in particular 'The vertical distance from the fixture outlet to the trap weir shall not exceed 24 inches (610 mm)'. Please provide a code compliant plumbing installation per our contractual agreement." Or words to that effect. Although perhaps that is a bit too blunt, I don't know.
I would still want to know what is really under the floor.
 

TXCajun

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What jurisdiction are you in within Texas? I would double check that the jurisdiction has not amended IPC 1002.1, and assuming not, simply reply with "The proposed layout does not comply with IPC 1002.1, in particular 'The vertical distance from the fixture outlet to the trap weir shall not exceed 24 inches (610 mm)'. Please provide a code compliant plumbing installation per our contractual agreement." Or words to that effect. Although perhaps that is a bit too blunt, I don't know.

Cheers, Wayne

I'm in central TX and fall under the same code as everyone around me. I made sure my contract with my builder is crystal clear about following all code, always defaulting to the level with the most strict, if that makes sense. I'm on it!

When I got that info from my builder, I did reply that I will have to see the code, or the amendment/exception, allowing this configuration.

I'm remaining diplomatic yet unwavering.

Again, what's helping with this is this forum. No way I would come even close to getting this taken care of without the education from y'all.

Thanks!
 

TXCajun

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I would still want to know what is really under the floor.

Agreed. The camera is going to happen this week.

Also, I will be asking why they chose this configuration. I just don't know enough to make even the wildest guess.

If you, or anyone else, can suggest a reason why they might have done this, I'd love to hear it. I will say they are not lazy, ignorant, mouth-breathing troglodytes. They are licensed, been in operation for decades, and so on. Very professional in appearance, always seem to have what they need, clean up their mess. There must be a reason. Surely, no plumber would look at this job and say, "Hey, for funsies, let's put the p-trap under the floor in this lady's home!"
 

Jeff H Young

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TX cajun . yea I get the explanation. So I may have been overly hard assumed the open pipe was for AAV. P-traps below floor are totally foreign to me and illegal in my jurisdiction and might be done that way legally elsewhere but hadn't heard of it in the USA , I'm not looking it up to check whether legal, or why they did it that way or how common it is in your area TX is a big state and could have more than one code (we don't do that here either) . If it was done all the time, like in 90 percent of homes and inspectors sign off on it, I guess I'd be OK with it. I would really like to know why that's how they do it though.
 

TXCajun

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TXCajun

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TX cajun . yea I get the explanation. So I may have been overly hard assumed the open pipe was for aav. Ptraps below floor are totaly foreighn to me and illegal in my jurisdiction and might be done that way legaly elsewhere but hadnt heard of it in the USA , Im not looking it up to check whether legal, or why they did it that way or how common it is in your area TX is a big state and could have more than one code (we dont do that here either) . If it was done all the time like in 90 percent of homes and inspectors sign off on it I guess Id be ok with it. I would reall like to know why thats how they do it though.

Agreed! I want to know why and will ask them.
 

TXCajun

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Am I correct in saying that an allowance for a deep seal trap does not exempt the configuration from having to comply with the code requiring the distance from the fixture to the p-trap weir being 24 inches or less?
 

wwhitney

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Sure. They are different, adjacent measurements. The 24" limit is from the bottom of the fixture to the trap weir. The trap seal depth is from the trap weir to the bottom of the interior of the trap.

And I don't think there's any allowance for a deep trap seal in your case.

Cheers, Wayne
 

TXCajun

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Sure. They are different, adjacent measurements. The 24" limit is from the bottom of the fixture to the trap weir. The trap seal depth is from the trap weir to the bottom of the interior of the trap.

And I don't think there's any allowance for a deep trap seal in your case.

Cheers, Wayne

Thank you for confirming that. And, I'm thinking you're correct.
 

Jeff H Young

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Since I never thought of putting a sink trap below floor I was puzzled why. But came up with a reason , sink coud be on out side wall with window and they dont want to drill framing members a very common obstacle. so by perhaps coming up beside window king stud santee and trap arm below floor might have to drill one or two joists, probebly a TJI and pretty easy
 

TXCajun

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Since I never thought of putting a sink trap below floor I was puzzled why. But came up with a reason , sink coud be on out side wall with window and they dont want to drill framing members a very common obstacle. so by perhaps coming up beside window king stud santee and trap arm below floor might have to drill one or two joists, probebly a TJI and pretty easy

Indeed, the sink is on an outside wall with windows directly above the countertop. The windows span the full run of that wall.
 
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