Kitchen faucet shut-off valve keeps turning & not turning off water

Discussion in 'Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice' started by JasonM, Mar 25, 2020.

  1. JasonM

    JasonM Member

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    Sep 7, 2014
    Location:
    California
    I have a kitchen faucet shut-off valve that keeps turning and does not turn off off water.

    I was replacing the water filter under the sink, and the shut-off valve worked the first 3 times while doing this.
    But after that, somehow when I tried to close the shut-off valve, it keeps turning with no end and does not turn off the water. I was afraid that if I keep trying turning off the water, it may leak or create some other problems. So, I stopped. The shut-off valve photos are attached.
    20200325_191256.jpg 20200325_191123.jpg
    I have 3 questions.
    1. Is this the sign that the shut-off valve is broken and needs replacing? Or is there a way to fix this shut-off valve?
    2. Is the shut-off valve compression fitting shut-off valve?
    2. Is there a better adapter or fitting than the photo shows that connects the shut-off valve to two water line, one for the kitchen faucet and the other for the water filter line.

    Thank you very much.
     
  2. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

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    Location:
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    1. I think replace.
    2. I think so. A photo from the side with the camera next to the wall would be more sure. Do you see 1/2 inch copper pipe anywhere else?
    3. If that compression valve is 1/2 inch copper (5/8 od), consider one of the Dahl dual shutoff valves. https://www.dahlvalve.com/products/mini-ball-valves/dual-shut-off-valves.php
    [​IMG]
    Alternatively, reuse your brass splitter with a single valve, such as the Dahl 611-33-31 (if the brass screws onto a 3/8 compression thread.

    You will want a ferrule puller to pull the ferrule. Search for ferrule puller using the search box, above. You will want a new escutcheon. I am not a plumber.
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2020
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  4. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

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    I'm assuming it's the valve with the red plastic line coming out of it? IF so, replace that valve, but probably a better solution would be to use a dual shutoff valve and replace both.
     
  5. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

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    Compression fittings don't use tape. Next time get rid of the tape on your compression fittings.
    IP tapered threads will use tape. You might have one of those now.

    If you have copper at the wall, you can install a double stop as a replacement.
    Or depending on what you have on the output of your shutoff will determine what fitting you can add at the top.

    Those come in
    3/8" compression
    1/2" compression
    1/2" I.P. thread

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
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  6. JasonM

    JasonM Member

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    Location:
    California
    Thank you Reach4, jadnashua, and Terry very much for the comments.

    Reach4, I am uploading 2 more photos that shows the pipe more clearly. I think it is 1/2 regular copper pipe. The Basscraft shutoff valve, not the small one with red plastic pipe, is I think, at least 15 or 20 years old, so I will replace it. I thank you for introducing so many dual valves. I have to study more to select the best one for my case. I have the Pasco compression sleeve puller, and I have used it once. By the way, is there an escutcheon that can be inserted by sliding in after the shut-off valve is installed? I want to make a 1/4 hole on the drywall in the pipe area covered by escutcheon to see once in a while the inside the wall for any termite damages using the wireless endoscope.

    jadnashua, I am sorry that I was not clear. It is the Brasscraft shut-off valve, not the red plastic line coming out. Yes, I am going to install the dual shut off valve.

    Terry, Yes, I learned that the compression fittings do not use tapes after I installed that small shut-off valve. Yes. I am going to install double stop shut off valve. I have to find out which is the best for my purpose.

    20200325_210253.jpg 20200325_210023.jpg

    May I ask some more questions.
    1. From the photos, is it clearly 1/2" regular copper pipe? I want to double-check from the experts.
    2. I notice that there are lots of mineral deposits around the copper pipe where the nut is. In case I need to use those area, can that be cleaned and used for the ferrule ring? What is the best way to clean the mineral deposit on the copper pipe?
    3. I see that there are copper color and chrome color double stop shut off valve. Which one do you recommend?
    4. I see that there are 3 ways to install it: A: one that is a shut-off valve that shuts off both line, B: another shut-off valve with 2 shut-off that for each line, C: and finally the main shut-off(BassCraft 1/4 turn ball-stop, Terry shows with photo) with 2 additional shut-off valves using adapter for each line, having total 3 shut-off valves. Do you think the B option is the best?
    5. Does the mineral deposit around the nut on the pipe mean that the water leaked a very little amount from the nut over a long period of time? Does that mean that the shut-off valve was not installed very well or correctly? Or is this normal?

    Thank you very much.
     
  7. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

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    I prefer the individual double shutoffs. I don't think it matters if it has a brass body or a chromed brass body. I do prefer the 1/4 turns because on the hot side the rubber washers go bad.

    You have standard 1/2" copper from the wall which can be cleaned up with emory cloth. I would not worry about what you have there, it's toast anyway.
     
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  8. JasonM

    JasonM Member

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    Location:
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    Thank you Terry very much for the additional comments and tips.

    OK. I will use the individual double shutoffs with 1/4 turns.

    I do not quite understand this. Do you mean that the mineral deposits are easily cleaned and no problem?

    Thank you.
     
  9. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

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    Location:
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    He means discard what you have. In this context, toast means burned-out, non-functioning, cooked, or has otherwise has reached its end of life.

    http://onlineslangdictionary.com/meaning-definition-of/toast

    Depends on your definition of easily. I would start with a household cleaner, and move to abrasive if needed. Click Inbox above.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2020
  10. JasonM

    JasonM Member

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    Thank you Reach4 very much for the comment.
    So, he means the existing BassCraft shutoff valve is no good and toast. He is not talking about the mineral deposits on the copper pipe.
    Thank you.
     
  11. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

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    New England
    You'll need some emery cloth to polish off the pipe so it is bright and smooth of any crud. A compression fitting (well, all valve types, regardless of the attachment method) expect a clean surface to make the connection. A soldered connection can have some solder left on it, as long as it is not lumpy and contaminated with other crud. If there were solder, you might get a good seal with a compression fitting if it was really thin and smooth.

    There are some escutcheon plates you can buy that are hinged that can go over an already installed valve (assuming there's enough room to install it). Personally, when possible, I prefer the look of a solid one that gets installed over the pipe prior to the valve installation.
     
  12. JasonM

    JasonM Member

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    May I ask one more question?

    If I use the the following dual shutoff, for example, will the existing water supply line connector fit this new shut off valve with no problem? And I need a adapter for the 1/4 plastic water filter line to fit 3/8 to 1/4 existing filter line connector. Is this correct?

    dual_shutoff.jpg

    Thank you very much.
     
  13. JasonM

    JasonM Member

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    California
    I found a better one. I think this is the right fittings for the existing water faucet line and the water filter line.

    dual_shutoff2.png

    Thank you.

    PS. I corrected the image. Somehow, I had uploaded the same image as the previous post photo.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2020
  14. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Joined:
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    Retired Systems engineer for defense industry.
    Location:
    New England
    For the supply line to the faucet, you would not use the supplied nut and compression washer as the hose will have its own nut and gasket to seal (more like a garden hose). IF the line to the faucet has a standard end at the faucet, replace that hose in the process...don't reuse the old one as when you muck with them, they sometimes don't last, or the rubber seal is all degraded and it's harder to get a good seal.

    This one only has a single shutoff, but it has a 3/8 and a 1/4" outlet, and wouldn't need any adapters https://www.brasscraft.com/product/12-in-nom-comp-x-38-in-o-d-comp-x-14-in-o-d-comp-4/

    Dahl also makes similar valves https://www.dahlvalve.com/products/mini-ball-valves/dual-outlet-valves/copper.php
     
  15. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

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    That should work.
     
  16. JasonM

    JasonM Member

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