Is this trap OK?

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SAS

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The popups have never worked properly on our bathroom sinks, so I decided to fix them. I hadn't looked at these traps before, and this just doesn't look right to me. That said, we haven't had any problems with the water failing to drain or with any odors. Do I need to change this? If so, how do I do that? While I can move the trap a bit lower, I can't get it low enough to go directly into the waste line. Also, while I'm here, does anyone have any thoughts about the spring loaded popups vs. the lever arm ones?

2016-09-05 23.05.39.jpg
 

CountryBumkin

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No. Picture hides connection at back, but it looks like the top makes a 180 and heads back down. If so, that's an "S" trap, which is bad.
 

SAS

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No. Picture hides connection at back, but it looks like the top makes a 180 and heads back down. If so, that's an "S" trap, which is bad.
Sorry, it's not a great photo, but you are correct about what you can't see. Essentially there is a second P trap (in fact I think it is a second P trap) and then a 90 degree adapter on the waste line. Without removing the bottom of the vanity to lower the P trap, is there any other way to fix this?
 

SAS

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Actually, I cannot tell how they keep it together, besides being a completely illegal installation.
I'm prepared to re-do it properly; I just don't know how to do it. Without removing the bottom of the vanity, extending the tail piece, removing the 90 degree connector from the waste line and making it look like a traditional P trap, is there any legal way of fixing this?
 

CountryBumkin

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Can you cut a small notch in vanity floor so P-trap is lower and the trap arm lines up with pipe at wall?
P-trap must be lower than waste pipe connection at wall.



P trap arms.jpg
 
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SAS

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I'm not sure I follow your diagram. Are you saying that the water level in the current configuration is too high? If so, why is that a problem? I thought that the issue with the current configuration is the risk of the trap being siphoned dry, but I must say that it has never happened in the 2 years we've been in the house.
 

Dj2

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SAS,

The trap should be below the arm to the drain in the wall.

"Why? How come? maybe? I don't understand? I didn't know, it never gave me trouble in 2 years" - again: the trap has to be below the arm to the drain.

These are codes, we didn't make them, just follow them.
 

SAS

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SAS,

The trap should be below the arm to the drain in the wall.

"Why? How come? maybe? I don't understand? I didn't know, it never gave me trouble in 2 years" - again: the trap has to be below the arm to the drain.

These are codes, we didn't make them, just follow them.
I guess I'm just stuck between a rock (the code) and a hard place (my wife). I certainly wouldn't have built it this way, but since the home inspector didn't notice it, and since it's been working OK my wife doesn't see the sense of losing her vanity drawer over the plumbing code unless there are going to be problems with the drain.
 

CountryBumkin

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If it is working okay, and you don't want to mess with the plumbing in the wall or cut the vanity - just leave it alone.
I won't tell. :D
 

Reach4

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I'm not sure I follow your diagram. Are you saying that the water level in the current configuration is too high? If so, why is that a problem? I thought that the issue with the current configuration is the risk of the trap being siphoned dry, but I must say that it has never happened in the 2 years we've been in the house.
The problem with your trap is that it is an S-trap. If it appears to work, and your nose works well, then it seems that it works despite being against the rules. So CountryBumkin is right. The proper cure would be to convert that to a P-trap by having an AAV at the appropriate place (after at least 3 inches of horizontal for 1.5 inch drain) before the water drops back down.

So why is there a 4 inch maximum water seal for P-traps normally? It is not clear. Look up the term deep seal trap. That term is used in https://terrylove.com/forums/index....t-of-p-trap-before-going-into-trap-arm.46512/ among other places. You will see that people say that a reason to use a deep seal trap is to keep them from drying up as soon without a trap filler.

There are rules that don't seem to have real functional reasons to be there. But there are good reasons that the trap you pictured should not be permitted by code,
 

Dj2

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The thing about being code compliant is that if there is a disaster (fire, flood) your claim could be denied by your insurance company. Or, when it's time to sell.

Sure, you can live with it not being to code, heck there are billions of code violations out there, and if you don't care, we don't care either.
 

Jadnashua

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Not all traps are created equal...there are some that are a bit shallower and might fit there without cutting into the platform below. The outlet of the trap should take a 90-degree turn and go immediately into the wall (well, I mean directly - the length there isn't a huge issue - you can be up to (I think on that size pipe)) about 3' to the vent. Any trap needs to be vented before it turns down again (i.e., off the trap arm) to work as designed.
 

SAS

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2016-09-07 07.47.40.jpg


The old trap has started leaking now that I've touched it, so I've decided to re-do it properly. What are my options? The first problem I see, besides having to probably cut some of the base out, is that the trap adapter is a 90 degree fitting. You can sort of see it in the attached photo. It's going to be tough to get in there to cut it out and also leave enough pipe to glue on a new one. Can I add a second 90 degree fitting? Alternatively, could I extend the vertical pipe, insert a tee and connect the trap to the horizontal and put a Studer vent in the top? Would that allow me to keep the current trap above the cabinet bottom and still avoid the S trap and possible siphoning issues?

If I do cut out the trap adapter, how/where do I add the offset since the drain is not aligned with the trap adapter? Can I do it right off of the trap adapter?
 
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Terry

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It looks like you have plenty of room to glue a trap adapter there.
When that is cut out, there will be plenty of room to install a proper trap, with the bottom of the cabinet cut to fit it in.

I ran into this the other day, the trap arm going up, which is wrong. You're only allowed a 2% grade on the trap arm, 1/4" per foot.

mission-copper-to-plastic-sink-2.jpg


What was there.

mission-copper-to-plastic-sink-1.jpg


I cut off the copper trap arm near the wall and using a Mission coupling fixed the grade problem.
 
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CountryBumkin

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2016-09-07 07_47_40.jpg


Like Terry said - Cut the pipe flush at the 90 degree fitting and glue on a trap adapter.

trap adapter.jpg


from the trap adapter you can use a 45 to get to the p-trap.
Why do you want to install an AAV? Do you not have a vent pipe in the wall?

In your first post you asked
Also, while I'm here, does anyone have any thoughts about the spring loaded popups vs. the lever arm ones?
I have the popup drains in my bathroom. They work well, they look good, and they take up less space. The only downside is that you have to stick your finger in the dirty water to open the drain. If your sink(s) already have a lever style and you switch to popup style, you will have a hole in the sink or faucet where the lever used to be (or a lever not connected to anything).
 
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SAS

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View attachment 36028
Like Terry said - Cut the pipe flush at the 90 degree fitting and glue on a trap adapter.
View attachment 36029
from the trap adapter you can use a 45 to get to the p-trap.
Why do you want to install an AAV? Do you not have a vent pipe in the wall?

In your first post you asked
I have the popup drains in my bathroom. They work well, they look good, and they take up less space. The only downside is that you have to stick your finger in the dirty water to open the drain. If your sink(s) already have a lever style and you switch to popup style, you will have a hole in the sink or faucet where the lever used to be (or a lever not connected to anything).
The idea for the AAV is that I wouldn't have to remove the 90 degree trap adapter. I could just run vertical PVC to a tee, with the trap entering the horizontal and the AAV on top. I think that if I create this horizontal section of drain I need to vent it, even though it's connected in the wall to a drain line that is vented. I've attached a picture of what I was thinking of doing.
Regarding the popup, yes the rod will still be in the back of the existing faucet, but it's angled in a way that makes it impossible to lift. There's just not enough clearance between the faucet and the wall, so you can't pull the lever up sufficiently before you hit the wall with it. Because of the way it's positioned, it really is not very noticeable, so having a non-functioning rod back there won't bother me.
Sink AAA Valve Installation 1.jpg
 

CountryBumkin

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I think that if I create this horizontal section of drain I need to vent it, even though it's connected in the wall to a drain line that is vented.
If you have a vent in the wall, then adding the AAV will do nothing for you. Actually it's creating more work for you - first with the under sink plumbing layout difficulties, then later when the AAV fails (they all fail at some time) and you need to replace it.
The only time an AAV is needed is for situations like with an island sink where there is no wall to run a vent pipe.
 

SAS

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In the picture above, if you assume that at the bottom of that vertical pipe there is a 90 degree adapter to a drain in the wall, could you just eliminate the tee and use a 90 degree fitting? I thought that would create a possible siphoning of the trap, since that vertical section has no venting of its own. Without the AAV isn't it just another version of an S trap?
 
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