I found that water heater relief valve drain can not be in to pan but can it be in a bucket?

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Curiousv

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Yes I know one should let it drain outside but if that is too difficult - can we drain in to 5 gallon or smaller bucket?
as per this link
it says its ok to drain in to bucket .it even shows a pic but does it apply to Tacoma WA? @Terry
 
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Reach4

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I would not call a 4.5 or 5 inch high container a bucket. Discharge needs to be within 6 inches of the floor. Air gap would mean you need the rim of the container to be something like 1.5 inches below that, I think.

This is not to say anything about WA requirements, but it is not going to let you have the end of your discharge pipe inside a 5-gallon bucket. In areas that freeze, it is the norm to just have that discharge onto the floor, as shocking as that may seem.
 

Jeff H Young

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I would say drain pipe 6 inches above bucket minimum and 24 inches off floor max. if inspector doesn't like it move bucket till he gets in his car I see 2018 code doesn't seem to have a problem with dumping it on floor , been some subtle changes in code over years but it seems if its an older place not piped to the outside you can dump it right on the floor but not in the pan .
I avoid a t and p terminating inside house a garage floor is one thing but inside where damage can occur I'm not having it.
 

Tuttles Revenge

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Tacoma is a jurisdiction that I haven't done much work in but I have done some and a bucket absolutely not acceptable there.

Tacoma has adopted the 2018 UPC with Washington State Amendments

I would think that a bucket is the same as or worse than a Pan in the eyes of an inspector. The reason that a pan is not an acceptable means of discharge is that the drain opening is not equal to the amount of water that a relief valve can discharge.

Water Heater Discharge.JPG
 

Master Plumber Mark

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The water heater should be on bricks in a safety pan to start with
then you need to just install the t+p pipe down into the catch pan and
then pipe the pan to the nearest drain if you have one......
It does not matter if the pipe is one inch or 6 inches off the floor as long as
it spills into the pan if it were to leak....

if you are on a crawl space drill a hole into the crawl space and pipe the drain pan down into the crawl
and put the t+p pipe into the drain pan only.... this way the pan will do double duty for both
a leaking water heater and a leaking t+p valve......
and you can see the water in the pan if you were
ever to have a problem


a bucket will only hold a small amount of water and then spill over in
a catastrophic event and piss all over the home causing damage.....

you need to use your brains boys --think
 
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Sylvan

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The water heater should be on bricks in a safety pan to start with
then you need to just install the t+p pipe down into the catch pan and
then pipe the pan to the nearest drain if you have one......
It does not matter if the pipe is one inch or 6 inches off the floor as long as
it spills into the pan if it were to leak....

if you are on a crawl space drill a hole into the crawl space and pipe the drain pan down into the crawl
and put the t+p pipe into the drain pan only.... this way the pan will do double duty for both
a leaking water heater and a leaking t+p valve......
and you can see the water in the pan if you were
ever to have a problem


a bucket will only hold a small amount of water and then spill over in
a catastrophic event and piss all over the home causing damage.....

you need to use your brains boys --think
if you THINK you should know very seldom does a T&P discharge full slow UNLESS the temperature exceeds 210 F

Most just seep from excessive pressure a "bucket" holds 5 gallons MORE then enough to allow the T&P to reset itself
 

Jeff H Young

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Tacoma is a jurisdiction that I haven't done much work in but I have done some and a bucket absolutely not acceptable there.

Tacoma has adopted the 2018 UPC with Washington State Amendments

I would think that a bucket is the same as or worse than a Pan in the eyes of an inspector. The reason that a pan is not an acceptable means of discharge is that the drain opening is not equal to the amount of water that a relief valve can discharge.

View attachment 84562
Yes a tand p doesn't dump in a drain pan it should be piped to out side or a acceptable location. on an existing job with no t and p drainage provided. So in case of exception I see nothing prohibiting it just keep it 2 ft off floor and put a bucket there its not the same as a pan with drain pipe. Why they have such a exception to just dump water on floor is not stated . My guess would be to not add hardship on an existing job.
I agree with the code and normally to run it into a drain pan instead of piped to outside would be a bad choice. only in absence of a drain would the bucket maybe make sense I doubt it would hurt anything.
We have water heaters in the middle of houses on slab with no t and p drain or on upper floors in apt buildings. So just dumping it on floor seems risky even in a bucket but you might get a warning.
It would be uncommon to have a drain pan with a drain and have inspector demand you move t and p and allow it right on the floor I guess it would be legal. Not sure if above is only Washington state or all UPC?
 

John Gayewski

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You can only dump on a slab floor. In a basement or garage they are dumped on the floor. The code prohibits dumping on a sub floor. So an acceptable location would have to be downhill from the discharge port. In the middle of a slab house is tough. To me a sump pit is a great location. Laundry sink great location, mop sink, any of these are usually lower than the discharge.
 

Jeff H Young

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Looks like the Washington amendment exception allows dumping on floor if no drain piping is present I don't like it but that's the code it doesn't say subfloor or slab .
mM guess is to not create hardship expense on an owner to comply .
 

John Gayewski

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Looks like the Washington amendment exception allows dumping on floor if no drain piping is present I don't like it but that's the code it doesn't say subfloor or slab .
my guess is to not create hardship expense on an owner to comply .
UPC has the sub floor portion in it.
 

Tuttles Revenge

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Washington state amendment to the 2018 code indicates where a water heater was installed prior to the requirements that its discharge be handled properly, then so long as it is replaced in that same location, the t&p can continue to be dumped on the floor. Presumably a concrete basement or garage floor, but that is vague.

If you happen to store your bucket at the same place as the t&p discharge well.. nothing in the code as to the storage location of a bucket.
 

Jeff H Young

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Washington state amendment to the 2018 code indicates where a water heater was installed prior to the requirements that its discharge be handled properly, then so long as it is replaced in that same location, the t&p can continue to be dumped on the floor. Presumably a concrete basement or garage floor, but that is vague.

If you happen to store your bucket at the same place as the t&p discharge well.. nothing in the code as to the storage location of a bucket.
I'm presuming any floor since it doesn't speculate. and my same thoughts on the bucket being "stored " I'd like to respect the 6 inches above top of bucket though to be in the spirit of the code.
The Wag valve seems like a good idea
 

Master Plumber Mark

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if you THINK you should know very seldom does a T&P discharge full slow UNLESS the temperature exceeds 210 F

Most just seep from excessive pressure a "bucket" holds 5 gallons MORE then enough to allow the T&P to reset itself


T+P valves can flood the shit out of a house... I have seen this many times before

Well, I THINK I almost got sued one time when some customer put a plastic bucket under his T+p drain and it over-flowed on him pretty badly .....
then when he picked up the scalding hot water bucket, the side of the plastic bucket melted open and it filled his right shoe with scalding hot water in an instant......:eek::eek:..
The hot water basically cooked his foot and he had to get skin graphs to save his foot...

he never actually blamed us for the issue but their was a short while where we thought we would get sued because the t+p did not go directly into a drain.... and we were the guys who installed it the year before...
it just went bad and this old tight wad was trying to save hot water.....

If you are gonna use a bucket be sure its a METAL bucket , NOT a flimsy plastic one
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On another occasion ---during the winter, a water heater was installed by a DIYER without a thermal expansion tank on the heater..... and the Landlord piped the t+p drain just down into the crawl space.... after a few weeks the ding-bats living in the home noticed they did not have enough hot water and they turned the heater up to scalding hot..... Then they could hear something running and they noticed that the heater was constantly burning...... Instead of calling the landlord, , they turned up a radio in the bathroom to drown out the noise from the plumbing. they liked to hear music 24 hours a day they claimed...they did not want to bother the landlord.........:D:D

after about a month or two the dummies got a 900 dollar water bill and started squealing like pigs
It turned out that the crawl space was flooded with scalding hot water and the steam from that water heater and it actually made the wood floors in their kitchen and bathrooms start to heave and warp from all the moisture... inside the vanities their was black mold forming on the drywall.... and the windows in the home had enough moisture on them so think that you could write your name...

we were called out to see what was going on and the insurance company wanted to blame someone for
the problem... I told them that my horse was not in this race and that this was just stupidity of the renters part that made this mess for not complaining to the landlord immediately


When you hear water running you call someone out to try to figure out what is going on..
cause the T+P could be flooding the shit out of your crawl space..


These people did not use their brains or have common sense
and you cannot fix stupid.
 
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Master Plumber Mark

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Does anyone use the WAGS valve? https://www.wagsvalve.com/

It's a one-time use valve, but also comes with a damage warranty if installed by a plumber.

The problem with a wags valve is they are expensive and are a one shot deal then the plumbing has to be
messed with and a new wags has to be plumbed in.....

they do make a solenoid valve that ties into a water sensor that sits in the pan under the water heater and shuts off
the water to the heater if it senses water... I have run into them before and they seem like a better option
 

Jeff H Young

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Yea well I been in many houses with T and p not hooked up to anything at all some in the the hallway closet . Great Ideas Mark the solenoid valve at W/H in the pan if there is a pan? Doesn't help if you've got a tand p legally dumping on the floor because to dump it in a pan is illegal but in such a case inspector may allow a pan under the heater that's capped off but has a sensor in it .
Reach 4 a t and p must not discharge less than 6 inches above floor that's the minimum and 2 foot max just one of our differences in code
 

Master Plumber Mark

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yea well i been in many houses with T and p not hooked up to anything at all some in the the hallway closet . Great Ideas Mark the solenoid valve at W/H in the pan if there is a pan? dosent help if youve got a tand p legaly dumping on the floor because to dump it in a pan is illegal but in such a case inspector may allow a pan under the heater thats capped off but has a sensor in it .
Reach 4 a t and p must not discharge less than 6 inches above floor thats the minimum and 2 foot max just one of our differances in code


This is really pretty simple stuff and I would not look at the code book as though its the holy bible either.....
Every heater we install is different , never exactly the same.. I just try to do everything possible to keep trouble from happening down the road in a few weeks, months or years....
The more you apply some simple safeguards to the installation of a water heater the happier you are gonna be years down the road when they call some evening stating it is pouring out the bottom like gangbusters


1656459701866.png
 

Reach4

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Yea well I been in many houses with T and p not hooked up to anything at all some in the the hallway closet . Great Ideas Mark the solenoid valve at W/H in the pan if there is a pan? Doesn't help if you've got a tand p legally dumping on the floor because to dump it in a pan is illegal but in such a case inspector may allow a pan under the heater that's capped off but has a sensor in it .
Reach 4 a t and p must not discharge less than 6 inches above floor that's the minimum and 2 foot max just one of our differences in code
UPC Section 608.5 gives those numbers for outdoor discharge. I don't know what they would apply for discharge onto the floor.

IPC 504.6 Requirements for discharge piping. says
5.Discharge to the floor, to the pan serving the water heater or storage tank, to a waste receptor or to the outdoors.
12. Terminate not more than 6 inches (152 mm) above and not less than two times the discharge pipe diameter above the floor or flood level rim of the waste receptor.

So yes, quite different. Georgia has a cool IPC amendment, allowing discharge uphill with a special configuration. https://terrylove.com/forums/index....and-amendments-to-the-georgia-ipc-code.89929/ This would be especially nice for water heaters in basements.

For cold places, I would like to see discharge outdoors but with a relief method to feed indoors if the outdoor path got blocked. If the dry outdoor path suddenly had hot discharge, that is not going to freeze up.
 
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