Steve20A
New Member
Ladies and Gentlemen of the Terry Love Plumbing World,
I live in a high-rise condo in southwest Florida. We have a rule that requires replacement of high-risk plumbing components at periodic intervals. When the rule was last updated, in 2015, 80-gallon hot water heaters manufactured at that time did not meet the requirements of Florida energy efficiency regulations, so our rule called for replacement water heaters to be 55-gallon units. Forward space to 2020 and 80-gallon units now do meet the energy efficiency requirements, so we are updating the rules. It seemed like a good time to look at other requirements.
I “volunteered” to gather information, so I have some questions to put before the experts on this forum (where I got exceptionally useful advice about Toto toilets a few years ago). I’m not looking for legal advice or guarantees, just solid opinion. Here goes:
General rule:
The rule calls for water heaters to be inspected at warranty expiration and annually thereafter, and to be replaced at the ten-year mark.
1. Specific rule:
2. Specific Rule:
3. Specific rule:
General question (#6): In several places, the rule requires the use of a brand name piece of equipment or the equivalent. Some of the brand name parts listed are obsolete at this point. Is there a better way to present the requirement than to quote a brand name item? Would it be sufficient to say “any part that meets Florida code” could be used? Are there grades of plumbing parts and supplies - could we say “use grade 3 parts?”
I know this was a lot to read, but I figured with Covid-19 and requirements for staying home, some of you might find the exercise enjoyable. I thank you all for any input you might provide.
Steve20A (Toto installer extraordinaire, at least in my own bathroom - 2 units, so far)
I live in a high-rise condo in southwest Florida. We have a rule that requires replacement of high-risk plumbing components at periodic intervals. When the rule was last updated, in 2015, 80-gallon hot water heaters manufactured at that time did not meet the requirements of Florida energy efficiency regulations, so our rule called for replacement water heaters to be 55-gallon units. Forward space to 2020 and 80-gallon units now do meet the energy efficiency requirements, so we are updating the rules. It seemed like a good time to look at other requirements.
I “volunteered” to gather information, so I have some questions to put before the experts on this forum (where I got exceptionally useful advice about Toto toilets a few years ago). I’m not looking for legal advice or guarantees, just solid opinion. Here goes:
General rule:
The rule calls for water heaters to be inspected at warranty expiration and annually thereafter, and to be replaced at the ten-year mark.
1. Specific rule:
The rule calls for replacement hot water heater to have a minimum of 8-year warranty.
Question 1: is there any sense in requiring a unit with a warranty of any specific number of years? Are 8-year warranty heaters really that much less likely to leak than 5-year warranty units?
Question 2: Should we, instead, require inspection every year, regardless of warranty?
Question 3: How do you handle a “lifetime warranty” unit? Other than saving the owner the cost of a new unit, is the anything that much better with a lifetime unit? Should they be replaced every ten years or…?
Question 1: is there any sense in requiring a unit with a warranty of any specific number of years? Are 8-year warranty heaters really that much less likely to leak than 5-year warranty units?
Question 2: Should we, instead, require inspection every year, regardless of warranty?
Question 3: How do you handle a “lifetime warranty” unit? Other than saving the owner the cost of a new unit, is the anything that much better with a lifetime unit? Should they be replaced every ten years or…?
2. Specific Rule:
The rule states that new, high efficiency units utilize electrodes that may be of metals dissimilar to the copper pipes they are connected to. Therefore, dielectric unions must be used on both the inlet and exit piping of the water heater.
Question 4: Is this true and does this make sense? Are dielectric unions generally called for when installing water heaters?
Question 4: Is this true and does this make sense? Are dielectric unions generally called for when installing water heaters?
3. Specific rule:
Background: In order to supply 50 psi to the top floors of the building, water pumps create a supply pressure of over 100 psi, which is then reduced to 50 psi at each apartment via a Pressure Reducing Valve. Apparently, here in southwest Florida, the water is such that significant corrosion and debris accumulation occurs in plumbing equipment, including PRVs.
The rule requires that the PRV be replaced when the hot water heater is replaced. [Right or wrong, there is no serious argument in the building about this.]
But the rule further requires that when the PRV is replaced, a pressure gauge be installed on the apartment side of the PRV to monitor pressure.
Question 5: Our local plumber, whom we trust, says that pressure gauges are not necessary and that we will have more issues with leaky gauges than problems uncovered by the gauges. I think this is one of those situations that is not right or wrong, but will be resolved by “weight of evidence/opinion.” What do you think? Should we mandate installation of tees to which a pressure gauge can be easily attached when required?
The rule requires that the PRV be replaced when the hot water heater is replaced. [Right or wrong, there is no serious argument in the building about this.]
But the rule further requires that when the PRV is replaced, a pressure gauge be installed on the apartment side of the PRV to monitor pressure.
Question 5: Our local plumber, whom we trust, says that pressure gauges are not necessary and that we will have more issues with leaky gauges than problems uncovered by the gauges. I think this is one of those situations that is not right or wrong, but will be resolved by “weight of evidence/opinion.” What do you think? Should we mandate installation of tees to which a pressure gauge can be easily attached when required?
General question (#6): In several places, the rule requires the use of a brand name piece of equipment or the equivalent. Some of the brand name parts listed are obsolete at this point. Is there a better way to present the requirement than to quote a brand name item? Would it be sufficient to say “any part that meets Florida code” could be used? Are there grades of plumbing parts and supplies - could we say “use grade 3 parts?”
I know this was a lot to read, but I figured with Covid-19 and requirements for staying home, some of you might find the exercise enjoyable. I thank you all for any input you might provide.
Steve20A (Toto installer extraordinaire, at least in my own bathroom - 2 units, so far)