Yes, the regulator is rated for LP.
The house is 24 years old (I’ve been in it 4 years) and It’s been on propane since being built.
I’m hoping it’s the second stage regulator- there’s nothing else between it & the water heater.
Tankless Challenges
- Thread starter Rrm8711
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The house is 24 years old (I’ve been in it 4 years) and It’s been on propane since being built.
I’m hoping it’s the second stage regulator- there’s nothing else between it & the water heater.
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Update:
I bought both a digital & water manometer.
Hooked the water type up to the inlet port of the water heater for a static reading & it responded like a geyser when I turned the gas supply valve on.
Then hooked up the digital and it was over 20” WC , so there is definitely something going on with that 2nd stage regulator.
I ordered a 2nd stage regulator online, so now I gotta wait about a week for it to get here.
To be cont’d…….
I bought both a digital & water manometer.
Hooked the water type up to the inlet port of the water heater for a static reading & it responded like a geyser when I turned the gas supply valve on.
Then hooked up the digital and it was over 20” WC , so there is definitely something going on with that 2nd stage regulator.
I ordered a 2nd stage regulator online, so now I gotta wait about a week for it to get here.
To be cont’d…….
Update:
I was hoping I would be texting about my tankless water heater problems solved; not the case.
Just a rehash-
since 3/26, the newly installed Takagi 310U won’t work consistently.
My propane supplier sent a couple of techs out (4/12) to look at the second stage regulator and water heater. They got the wh to fire up a few times, but nothing consistent. They gave up.
Then after they left, for no rhyme or reason, the water heater fired up for six consecutive days -then back to trouble code 111.
A couple of weeks later, I had the second stage regulator swapped out as I thought it was suspect, it being 22 years old.
The pressure out of the new regulator was 10.64”wc
At the inlet of the water heater, it was 11.23”wc.
I was thinking this should fix the problem, but no dice- still trouble code 111.
After talking to Takagi Tech Support earlier this week, they thought maybe the manifold gas valve assembly was suspect. They sent me out a new one along with the LPG conversion kit.
I installed them today and on the second try of cranking it over, it fired up and I thought that’s it-fixed!
I let the water heater run for about a minute, then I turned the water faucet off , waited 30 seconds & turned the faucet back on to see if it would fire back up, but it did not ( several tries) back to trouble code 111.
Talked to Takagi tech-support again today and they started a return authorization process to send me out a new unit.
So now I’m just throwing crap against the wall to see what sticks.
Either the unit I currently have is somehow bad (PCB, sensor’s or whatever) or my old LPG delivery lines are not adequate enough for this new water heater with newer technology. Sometimes the LPG pressures fluctuate during certain times of the day related to how hot it is;Are these new water heater units that sensitive? IDK
The reason I say newer technology is because the old Takagi TK-3 that was replaced lasted 21 years and when looking over its installation /owners manual, it doesn’t mention taking any kind of pressure measurements or the like; just slap it in, set the DIP switches & go.
I’ve contemplated replacing the heat exchanger and burner on the older unit, rather than dealing with the PIA problems I’ve encountered with this newer unit.
Michael Young
In the Trades
Send some pictures. Has anyone done a gas takeoff on your system? Who installed the unit? I would swap out the entire unit under warranty before I spend a bunch of time fighting with a brand new piece of equipment.
Thx for the reply.
-Picture’s of what specifically? I have tried uploading some pictures previously, but are denied because the file is too big.
-I’m not familiar with what a gas takeoff is; unless my propane supplier tech’s did one when they were out on 4/12?…IDK
-I installed the new Takagi 310U unit (LPG conversion) as it fit perfectly were the 21 year old Takagi TK-3 was- no adjustments were needed for mounting, the exhaust vent stack or LPG flex line. I did install some isolation valves; the old water heater did not have them.
Since 3/26 (day of initial fire-up) the unit has fired up 11 times and long enough to take a bath and 6 showers, so it has worked - just not consistently.
A new 2nd stage regulator was installed this past Tuesday and a new gas valve assembly and LPG conversion kit installed yesterday. Gas valve and conversion kit were sent by Takagi.
After trying to fire up the unit yesterday ( it did fire up once out of about 20 tries) & talking with Takagi yesterday, they did initiate a return authorization to get me out a new unit.
I guess they came to this conclusion after me calling them 11 times overall and them trying to troubleshoot what the problem could be with no solution.
Some of my questions are:
- are these new units that finicky/sensitive to pressures changes within the delivery line?
I can take an inlet pressure reading at the water heater at 8:30 a.m. at 38° and it’s at 11.10”wc.
I can take another reading at 1p.m. when the outside temperature is higher and the gases have expanded and get a higher reading on the manometer.
From the newly installed 2nd stage regulator ( that read 10.64” WC at it’s port) , the LPG iron pipe runs in the rafters of my house that has a metal roof, so it’s gonna get pretty hot up there. With the hotter temperatures expanding the gases, are these fluctuations in pressures going to make the new unit with newer technology (PCB,sensors,etc) run erratically?
The old water heater ran for 21 years until its previous issues.
I’m just wondering if my older LPG supply line is not adequate for a newer water heater with more sensitive technology(?)
In looking at the old TK-3 installation owners manual, it doesn’t have the requirements of measuring pressures that this newer unit has.
That’s why I have considered ditching the new unit & replacing the heat exchanger and burner in the old unit that were cruddy and corroded and give it a go.
Very Frustrating
* Some of you may be wondering why this whole process is taking so long.
I live in the mountains of Colorado and getting any kind of technician or services out to me takes a couple of weeks in scheduling with the service providers & getting on their waiting list.
Michael Young
In the Trades
ok. the gas take-off is designed to makes sure you have enough gas.
old Takagi TK-3 required 199,000 btu
new Takagi 310U has a slightly lower rating at 190,000 btu.
So you shouldn't have any issue with volume.
Look in the handbook. there should be a dip-switch for high elevation. You mentioned Colorado. Did you flip the dip switch for high elevation?
You mentioned uneven gas pressure. Have you checked the regulator on your LP system? It sounds like you may have already replaced it and calibrated the pressure.
Everything here sounds like you have a bad control board. I suspect swapping the unit is going to solve your problem.
if you haven't done so already, sit down with the booklet and read the entire booklet from front to back. If you have a new unit, typicaly the only thing that can go wrong is poor gas flow or your fresh air inlet isn't providing adequate fresh air. CHECK THE REGULATOR. a 1/2" regulator only feeds 140,000 btu. You may need to increase the size to 3/4"
If you used the old fresh air and waste piping, Push something all the way through to confirm that there's nothing blocking your fresh air.
Your water quality. Some areas of Colorado have lots of calcium in the water. Take the filter out and see if it's clean (it should be, it's brand new). If you have issues with water quality, you may need to install a filter before the water enters the tankless.
If the new Takagi doesn't solve your problem, I would install a Rinnai or Navien instead. Depending where you live in Colorado, if you lose power with any regularity, I would install a small inline UPS so you still have hot water when the power goes out.
old Takagi TK-3 required 199,000 btu
new Takagi 310U has a slightly lower rating at 190,000 btu.
So you shouldn't have any issue with volume.
Look in the handbook. there should be a dip-switch for high elevation. You mentioned Colorado. Did you flip the dip switch for high elevation?
You mentioned uneven gas pressure. Have you checked the regulator on your LP system? It sounds like you may have already replaced it and calibrated the pressure.
Everything here sounds like you have a bad control board. I suspect swapping the unit is going to solve your problem.
if you haven't done so already, sit down with the booklet and read the entire booklet from front to back. If you have a new unit, typicaly the only thing that can go wrong is poor gas flow or your fresh air inlet isn't providing adequate fresh air. CHECK THE REGULATOR. a 1/2" regulator only feeds 140,000 btu. You may need to increase the size to 3/4"
If you used the old fresh air and waste piping, Push something all the way through to confirm that there's nothing blocking your fresh air.
Your water quality. Some areas of Colorado have lots of calcium in the water. Take the filter out and see if it's clean (it should be, it's brand new). If you have issues with water quality, you may need to install a filter before the water enters the tankless.
If the new Takagi doesn't solve your problem, I would install a Rinnai or Navien instead. Depending where you live in Colorado, if you lose power with any regularity, I would install a small inline UPS so you still have hot water when the power goes out.
Thx for the reply.
Dip-switch settings:
1on/2off for LPG
3-4-5 on for elevation range 7,501-10,100 ( my area is 8,700)
6 on, 7-8 off for single exhaust vent & room-air intake.
I don’t think there’s any blockage on the exhaust vent, for when I’m troubleshooting with the front water heater cover off, when there is a breeze outside, I can feel a downdraft coming down the vent stack & then going through the water heater body. The vent stack is a straight 10’ piece.
I put a 90° elbow (with window screen covering it’s hole) on the air intake port.
Uneven gas pressure reading’s occurred when I was taking manometer pressure readings. I have just found through trial, with the plastic tube attached to the gas inlet port, that if I bleed lpg through the small plastic tube that will attach to the manometer, that releases the pressure & then I get more normal readings- so, problem solved there.
& yes, a new 2nd stage regulator was installed this past Tuesday: 10.64”out of its port.
As far as the water filter , that was clean.
While the tech’s were out, we covered all the basics: water filter, spark out of the wire connecting to the igniter rod, cleaned igniter and flame rods. Checked for loose connections on the computer board. Oooftah!
Also-
Latest INLET port readings earlier today, when firing up the unit (4 tries) - avg. static readings of those 4= 11.33”. Average reading when water heater was under load, cycling & trying to fire up=10.72”.
The manual indicates the difference of static to dynamic should not exceed 1.5”
So the numbers fall within that spec.
So I know the unit is getting air and spark; the only thing that might be questionable is fuel.
I’ll call up Takagi tech support & ask them this:
If after the unit has cycled and goes to trouble code 111, if I quickly pull the combustion chamber tube from the combustion chamber connection port, should I be able to smell LPG? and if not, is that a definite sign that fuel is not getting to the combustion chamber?
You mentioned a bad control board.
I hope that is the issue and a new unit will solve the problem, although I’ve gotten my hopes up b4 when changing out the 2nd stage regulator and then swapping out the gas valve assy. Lol.
Thank you again.
Fitter30
Well-Known Member
Brand and model of the.old 2 nd stage regulator? Measure or count the turns of the adjustment for spring pressure. Then unscew the adjustment all the way out pull spring what color is it? The tag on the valve might have a orifice size what is it. Put spring back and adjuster. Before screwing the adjuster down measure gas pressure at wh valve. Adjust to 11". Top half of reg there is either a screen should be clean or look at the link the brass fitting on the top unscrew it check pressure.
Have both flue and outside air piped to the heater and if so same side.of the.house?
Thx for the reply.
Old 2nd stage regulator is Rego LV4403B66R. Replaced with same.
In reading Rego website info, they set their regulators at the factory to 11”.
I took 2 readings today at the regulator - average was 11.11”, so I’m content with that.
Pressure reading at the inlet port at the wh was 11.07”, then under load (while cycling) pressure dropped to 10.55”. Takagi specs indicate a drop within 1.5” is allowable, so that’s good.
Exhaust flue is a straight 10’ piece.
Air intake is an in-room application: a 90° elbow w/window screen coverage.
Update:
Talked with tech-support yesterday & they said to re-set the dip switches from LPG to NG , which will change the fuel/air mixture; that worked as the unit did fire up, but it’s a short term fix to give me some hot water until a new unit is sent to me , which the manufacturer authorized, so I should be getting a new unit next week. Yippee!
Bgard
Active Member
Window screen is to restrictive on the air intake, try removing it. Too rich of a fuel mixture will cause it not to fire also,
Thx for the reply
Turned control panel off
Turned off power supply
Unplugged unit
Removed screen
Reset dip-switches to LPG
Plugged unit back in
Turned on power supply to unit
Turned on unit at control panel
Turned on hot water at bath & let it cycle (4 x’s)
No fire up.
Tankless challenges epilogue (I hope, lol)
The last 2 weeks I’ve swapped out the 2nd stage regulator and got a new gas valve assembly from the manufacture- neither one of those got the water heater working.
The manufacturer finally sent me out a new water heater, which I received late Friday, installed it yesterday and went to fire it up today.
Abracadabra!- on the 1st try, it fired up.
For whatever reason (PCB or other item) the unit was bad.
Now, I gotta try recoup (from the manufacturer) some of the $ spent on technician visits.
Yeah, I know- good luck with that.
Thank you all for taking the time to post your recommendations and input, very much appreciated.
Best
