Champion 4 ghost flushing

Discussion in 'Toilet Forum discussions' started by SJW, Mar 8, 2020.

  1. SJW

    SJW New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2020
    Location:
    New Brunswick
    Hi there

    I have a 5 year old Champion toilet that has recently started ghost flushing. I replaced the flapper gasket but that didn’t work. I then decided to replace the entire flush valve assembly with a Korky. That didn’t work either.

    I put food colouring in the tank and it is now appearing in the bowl. I placed the water refill tube outside of the overflow tube.

    Any ideas what I can try next? It almost seems like it might be easier to replace the toilet at this point.

    thanks for any help!
     

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  2. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2013
    Location:
    IL
    Turn off the stop valve at the wall, maybe overnight. If the problem is a leak at the flapper, the water level will stop dropping at the flapper level.

    Maybe you will find some imperfection in the flush valve seat.

    On the other hand, I think your toilet is pretty old, right?

    [​IMG]
     
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  4. SJW

    SJW New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2020
    Location:
    New Brunswick
    Thanks!

    I have left the water off overnight with both the original Champion and new Korky and it is exactly what you describe - the water drains to the flapper, but not any lower.
     
  5. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2013
    Location:
    IL
    Feel the valve seat. Rub the seat with a cloth to remove any debris.

    Does your chain have slack? It should have a bit of slack.

    Also, are you sure you have a Champion 4? I thought those had flush towers rather than conventional flappers.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2020
  6. SJW

    SJW New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2020
    Location:
    New Brunswick
    The Champion 4 does have the tower, but when I replaced the gasket, it still leaked, so I switched it out for a traditional flapper type using the Korky product made for Champions
     
  7. BurlingtonChampion

    BurlingtonChampion New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2020
    Location:
    Burlington Ontario
    Champion toilet, phantom flushes solved?....it was not what the web said (flapper gasket), it was worse. The ceramic surface to which the flush-valve mount ring is clamped has roughness (like 100 grit sandpaper), waviness (1/2mm), peaks (1mm), even bits of ceramic from manufacture that were not cleaned-off and are sintered onto the seal surface. I don't think any gasket has the ability to seal given the poor surface prep. I would like to send you pictures. I tried a buna gasket but it was too stiff. I am trying a cork gasket, but I suspect it will not survive continuous immersion. I could not find a sheet of neoprene at any local hardware stores. Here is a picture, that chuck is sintered onto the sealing surface.

    Champion flush valve mount (6).JPG Champion flush valve mount (1).JPG
     
  8. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2004
    Occupation:
    Plumber
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    Sometimes you can take emory cloth and sand the china where the seal sets down. In a worst case, new seal and Silicone.
    In really worse case, and I've had those too, replace the toilet.
     
  9. BurlingtonChampion

    BurlingtonChampion New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2020
    Location:
    Burlington Ontario
    Thanks Terry. Emery paper 'smoothed' the roughness, but the chunks of clay and lumps are too big and are still present. Smoothing and the cork gasket-doubler have reduced the phantom-flushes to one or two per day (tolerable as we are not a extreme water restricted city). I have cranked the mounting bolts as tight as i could with a screw-driver, that helped. I didn't silicone (yet). As soon as Covid-19 restrictions are lifted, I will try to get a small diamond wheel or disk for my 'dremel' tool and try to grind-down the lumps without electrocuting myself.

    Predictably when notified of the finding, the American Standard people were essentially 'no comment'. They promised to send a new mounting-ring gasket when the stocks are replenished later this month.

    The only good thing about the Covid-19 is all the time I now have for these lingering non-critical rainy-day fixes around the home.
     
    Terry likes this.
  10. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2004
    Occupation:
    Retired Systems engineer for defense industry.
    Location:
    New England
    QA/QC, especially on toilets purchased at big box stores from AS seems to be an ongoing issue. Rumor has it that to get their sometimes lower prices, they don't require the full QA/QC that goes into those sold through plumbing supply houses.
     
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