Cast Iron Bathtub Color Change

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DavidKr

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OK, I'm struggling to figure out an acceptable approach to solve my dilemma, I have a 2nd story kid's bathroom with an alcove Kohler Villager cast iron tub. House was built in 1987, Minnesota 2X6 construction on the walls, back is exterior. The builder installed tile just started dropping from the wall one day from the CBU. I stripped the tile, CBU (1.5' up) and sheet rock, so the surround is to the studs, with maybe 1.5' sheetrock remaining at the top. The tub installation was nothing like what I see today when I research (no vapor barrier, CBU only 1.5' up, thinset direct on CBU/sheetrock..etc). The builder did stuff pink insulation on all four sides of the tub, maybe a cold winter approach. Luckily, there was no real moisture damage (some rusty screws, nails, and minor discoloration stains on the visible side of the CBU, studs/insulation are dry and in great condition).

OK, so now the dilemma, I want to change the tub color to white, I am fine with the tub (it performs, doesn't creak, low profile is fine..etc). It's in good shape, it's just the color is an ugly yellowish beige, I could live with the ugliness of it, but the wife is adamant it has to be white. The use would be daily showers by kids. Here's what's mulling through my head, and I'm spinning on what to do just to change a color.

Option 1: Easiest - Have a local reputable refinisher to refinish to white (5 year warranty), and accept it won't last as long as what I have now, try to keep it clean with the recommended cleaners. It will need to be redone in 1 to 20 years, so a crap shoot. I'm sure the warranty would be difficult to collect on if there is an unexpected early failure. Given all the horror stories on the internet on the refinish peeling up, is this really a bad idea, only to be used by house flippers? $550 cost, and keep having to spend this every X years.

Option 2: DIY - Replace with an Americast, I could handle this tub, but I'm a little concerned about the drain hookup access with a 2 story. I could a call a plumber if I'm not comfortable when I get into it. Concerned about creaking, and thinking of a mortar bed. Also concerned it's not as durable as option 3, but realize it's probably better than option 1.

Option 3: Hire Professional - Replace with another Villager, yes, all that work just to effectively change a color. No way could I handle over 300 pounds by myself, with no experience with tub installs. I would just hire out the tub install and hookup, assuming I can find someone who wants to deal with a 2nd floor CI install. Maybe the old drain and overflow would just line up if the villager mold hasn't changed in 30 years, and just replace the gaskets. The old install did have leveling done by 2X4 blocks nailed diagonally under the lip in the back corners, haven't seen that method in any of my research. Plumber quoted 2 man crew T&M, 220/hr + 75 fee. I have no idea, but I would think it would be 2 to 5 hours depending on how easy the hook up is, hopefully they don't have to tear up adjacent bedroom floor for the drain. How nasty can this get with the drain hookup, am I in the ballpark with the hours? Can it be more invasive to fit a drain with a heavy tub? I really can't imagine fitting a drain with something this heavy, working around existing finished construction. Last thing I want is an extensive and costly project.

So, at this point in my excessive thinking, I'm between 1. and 3., and have held myself from grabbing the sledge hammer and demoing the existing tub out. Most curious on option 1., is it a bad idea? Just to change a color, 3. seems like a lot of work and expense just for a color change.

Thoughts, any advice appreciated from a plumber's perspective and what you folks really see with these approaches and aftermaths.
 
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The cost to refinish the tub is close to the cost of buying a new tub. Since you have torn apart the shower area I would replace the tube with the cast iron of you liking. Especially if you plan to be in the house long term. Do it right now and only have to do it once. Swapping the tub out with one of same style just a different color make all the plumbing connection easier.
 

Terry

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I remember a job where we had new tile and left the old Kohler cast tub. The tub looked kind of old next to the new tile.
You can refinish, and it will kind of look like you did.
I would guess four hours for a two man crew. It depends on their expierence. It's best to leave a tub in the box or crate until it's in the bathroom. It's hard to carry otherwise. The last one I did, they supplied their own tub and when I showed up, it was out of the crate. It was very hard for three guys to get it upstairs. The crate gives much better hand positions.
 

DavidKr

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Thanks, I'm going to demo this weekend with a sledgehammer and blanket. I'm committed to doing it right. A couple of more questions:

1. What are the chances the exitsting drain will line up between villager model years, I.E. a 30 year old villager having the same mold as a new one and magically the existing drain plumbing lines up. I'm wondering if the included drain plumbing is the same and the 2 gaskets is all that's needed to re-use.

2. I having a hard time picturing the install process. This is not a full bathroom gutting, there is finished sheetrock 4" from the apron on the sides and the finished floor tile (want to keep) butts to the apron on the bottom. Is this enough room to level and install? So, to get the stringer in, you could slide the tub out from the alcove 4" until you hit finished sheetrock, and you'd have to get over the lip of the floor tile (protected with cardboard) as well. I guess I'm struggling to figure on how you'd be able to hammer in a stringer after the tub is lowered. I'd think shimming the cast iron feet would be next to impossible, I can't see a way to lift the tub straight up without breaking backs and tilting forward/backwards seems challenging as well with that sheetrock on the sides (the apron won't clear the existing finished sheetrock). Thoughts? I just want to be prepped before the plumbers show up, do I have to gut more or do you think they can do this install as is.
 
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Terry

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You need more than 4" off the walls near the back.
I call it a controlled drop into place. I have never shimmed the feet. I have used a ledger board on the back wall, and shimmed the apron where needed.
I would not reuse an old waste and overflow. New is the way to go.

The new Americast tubs are redesigned to fit closer to the floor so that there is less movement now. I was surprised to see that on the last install.

https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/installing-a-kohler-villager-cast-iron-tub.33212/

mateer-06.jpg


A little demo of a cast iron tub. I lay plastic to contain the shrapnel.

mateer-07.jpg


This is the new Americast tub.
 

DavidKr

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OK, the Villager is out. I went to a few home improvement stores to find a drain. My drain is different than what the home improvement stores have. The P-Trap is directly under the drain. There's a joist that I think will get in the way with the universal plastic drains I saw.

Options.
1. Re-use, with new washers, looking at the image, there is some light corrosion
2. Buy New, kind of hard to find (Watco one looks too cheap)
Thoughts?

00001_IMG_00001_BURST20170528132741_COVER.jpg
 
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Terry

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I've been doing plastic drains. New code doesn't like the slip joint nuts in concealed places. It's a bit more work to get it right. The slip joints let you move the parts so they are an easier install.
 

DavidKr

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I've been Googling, and direct waste bath kits don't appear to be very popular. But I think I'm stuck structurally sticking to what the builder used. I don't want to cut that joist up anymore than it is, or have to put S connectors in to work around.

I'm looking at building one with something like this: http://www.supplyhouse.com/Jones-St...Brass-Lift-Turn-Drain-w-2-Hole-Face-Plate-PVC

If I go this route, I'll try to source local, but doubt I'll be able to find.
 

DavidKr

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Of course the ABS direct waste kits are even harder to get. If I'd have bought the integrated overflow on the Americast, this would have been easier (kicks self).

I'm trying to do this right, a PVC drain kit to ABS slip joint adapter as shown in my pic above, is that a no no? The builder did do brass to this ABS adaptor.
 

DavidKr

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I was going to get the Jones Stevens, but it's too long drain to P Trap compression fitting (5"), and would require moving the P Trap lower, which I don't think is trivial), here's the Jones Stephens:
http://www.supplyhouse.com/Jones-St...Brass-Lift-Turn-Drain-w-2-Hole-Face-Plate-PVC

I found a suitable PVC replacement that matches the profile of the Gerber brass shoe waste setup:
JB 771 Serieshttp://www.jb-products.com/bathwastes/shoe-outlet.html

The other alternative is to stick with the builder brass setup, Gerber 41-891 or 41-896, which no one carries locally. I'm going to take Terry's advice and go PVC with glued connections on the overflow.\

For Googling, there's quite a bit of terminology for this type of waste hookup, it is not standard, as most connect at the bottom of the overflow.
Direct Bath Waste
Shoe Outlet
Toe Outlet
Through the Shoe

So hopefully someone with a shoe waste install finds this info helpful.
 
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