Best way to vent my tub

[Isaac H]

So long story short, I am new to plumbing and am a homeowner plumbing the house I bought 1 year ago. Replumbed the whole thing myself so far, but it's a small house and fairly simple. This one thing has really got me confused though. The vent location for the clawfoot tub I'm installing is in the opposite direction of the stack I have to get to. I have what I thought to be my best solution dry fit (please note the slope is not currently correct, I did not cut my vent pipe shorter yet because I'm not sure what solution I'm going to end up with), but then realized I may not be to code. However my other option is potentially worse. I've attached pictures of what I have and my second idea, I'd love some advice on which one is better, or if I have another solution I'm not seeing. Thanks in advance!

What I have now:

Option #2:

 

[Terry]

Option 2 keeps the vent vertical.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Isaac H]

Side note. You can see the way I'm attaching into the stack. I have another sink that will enter into the bottom sanitary t, and I have a shower that will enter at the top of the top sanitary t. That shower will be vented normally, so if I brought that line into the one for tub about halfway down would that be a satisfactory wet vent and I could ignore this vent for the claw foot anyway? Kind of a crappy drawing here, but hopefully gets the idea across?

 

[Isaac H]

Option 2 keeps the vent vertical.

Right, but is the 180° vertical change of direction an issue, and can I use two street 90s to make that change? Thank you for your quick reply!

Also, the p trap I got is a screw together one. Should I get a glue up one of I plan to potentially finish this basement one day?

 

[wwhitney]

South Dakota appears to use the IPC, so option 1 is not allowed. On option 2, use a san-tee with the barrel vertical (just like a sink is normally vented), and a street LT90 on the bottom of the san-tee to turn back horizontal (assuming you want to minimize the vertical drop).

A union trap is only useful if there's another reversible joint (like a slip joint), so you can undo both joints and remove the trap to clear it. If you have a union trap and later cover it up making it inaccessible, you would need to change it to a glue joint trap at that point (same for any slip joints).

Cheers, Wayne

 

[Isaac H]

South Dakota appears to use the IPC, so option 1 is not allowed. On option 2, use a san-tee with the barrel vertical (just like a sink is normally vented), and a street LT90 on the bottom of the san-tee to turn back horizontal (assuming you want to minimize the vertical drop).

A union trap is only useful if there's another reversible joint (like a slip joint), so you can undo both joints and remove the trap to clear it. If you have a union trap and later cover it up making it inaccessible, you would need to change it to a glue joint trap at that point (same for any slip joints).

Cheers, Wayne

Thank you, that cleared everything up, and of course using the sanitary that way is so much better, I am so blind! Thank you all.

 

[Terry]

Pretty much everything I see there need to be cut out and redone.
Wrong fittings everywhere, wrong coupling where you change material, wrong layout.
The line to the tub has no grade, it should rise at 1/4" per foot.
Vertical to horizontal, a long turn 90.
Horizontal changes of direction, long 90's or 45's
The Fernco needs to be a shielded coupling to prevent future sagging, which does happen. Over time those things collapse.

Helpful Plumbing Hints for Residential Construction by Bert Polk Plumbing Inspector Lincoln County

These come in different sizes, for different types of pipe.
Plastic, copper, cast iron
The metal wrap keeps the connection from sagging.

 

[Isaac H]

When you say "everything", do you mean pertaining to this bath drain or do you mean with the other plumbing? As stated, this is merely a proof of concept dry fit, no grade or anything yet on this tub drain, I'm still putting everything together. My plan is completely different than shown now thanks to

Pretty much everything I see there need to be cut out and redone.
Wrong fittings everywhere, wrong coupling where you change material, wrong layout.
The line to the tub has no grade, it should rise at 1/4" per foot.
Vertical to horizontal, a long turn 90.
Horizontal changes of direction, long 90's or 45's
The Fernco needs to be a shielded coupling to prevent future sagging, which does happen. Over time those things collapse.

View attachment 76948

Helpful Plumbing Hints for Residential Construction by Bert Polk Plumbing Inspector Lincoln County

These come in different sizes, for different types of pipe.
Plastic, copper, cast iron
The metal wrap keeps the connection from sagging.

When you say "everything", do you mean pertaining to this bath drain or do you mean with the other plumbing? As stated, this is merely a proof of concept dry fit, no grade or anything yet on this tub drain, I'm still putting everything together. My plan is completely different than shown now thanks to @wwhitney. With regards to the fernco, I need a 4x2 which from what was available to me did not come in shielded, but I'll check on that. If there are major problems with the other plumbing I'll take a look at it. Thank you.

 

[Terry]

You can use a 4x3 or 4x2 flush bush in a Fernco fitting.
I'm looking at all of the piping in that room.

I also see that you're using water fittings and not DWV fittings in places.

 

[Isaac H]

You can use a 4x3 or 4x2 flush bush in a Fernco fitting.
I'm looking at all of the piping in that room.

I also see that you're using water fittings and not DWV fittings in places.

I'm not sure what you mean by water fittings rather than DWV. My understanding is that schedule 40 is for pressurized situations, DWV is lighter duty and used for drain applications. As far as I could tell, any piece I used that would be draining liquids was DWV, and anything that pertained to the vents that only air passes through I used what fittings were available at my local Menards. I'm interested in satisfying code not because I need to pass an inspection, but because for the most part code exists to make sure things work properly. If something I did doesn't technically conform to code but still practically works just fine then I'm okay with that in this situation. I've spent countless hours reading up on here and offer places, and a couple books, so I feel confident that everything im doing will "work", satisfying code would just be icing on the cake.

The fernco tip is greatly appreciated, I never thought about that before.

 

[wwhitney]

Looking at your picture again, the parts other than the tub drain, a couple comments:

(1) There are some 90s that I can't tell whether they are vent 90s, quarter bends, or LT 90s, so I'm not sure if they are the correct 90s. Vent 90s (or pressure rated 90s) can only be used on vents and should only be used 6" above the flood rim level of any fixture on the vent. For drainage, a quarter bend is only used when waste is moving from horizontal to vertical. When it is moving from vertical to horizontal, or horizontal to horizontal, it needs to be a LT 90.

(2) The drain that ends up next to the electrical panel has a san-tee on its back, and something is wrong there. Either that's for a vent-takeoff, where the IPC does allow a san-tee on its back, in which case the vent is horizontal below the flood rim of the fixture, which is not allowed. Or it for connecting two drains, in which case a san-tee on its back is not allowed; it should be a combo. The combo is taller than the san-tee on its back, but you can roll the combo 45 degrees off vertical, and use a (possibly street) 45 on the side inlet to get a more compact connection.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[Isaac H]

Looking at your picture again, the parts other than the tub drain, a couple comments:

(1) There are some 90s that I can't tell whether they are vent 90s, quarter bends, or LT 90s, so I'm not sure if they are the correct 90s. Vent 90s (or pressure rated 90s) can only be used on vents and should only be used 6" above the flood rim level of any fixture on the vent. For drainage, a quarter bend is only used when waste is moving from horizontal to vertical. When it is moving from vertical to horizontal, or horizontal to horizontal, it needs to be a LT 90.

(2) The drain that ends up next to the electrical panel has a san-tee on its back, and something is wrong there. Either that's for a vent-takeoff, where the IPC does allow a san-tee on its back, in which case the vent is horizontal below the flood rim of the fixture, which is not allowed. Or it for connecting two drains, in which case a san-tee on its back is not allowed; it should be a combo. The combo is taller than the san-tee on its back, but you can roll the combo 45 degrees off vertical, and use a (possibly street) 45 on the side inlet to get a more compact connection.

Cheers, Wayne

Thank you so much for that info! Of course, I saw improper San t all over and yet I still did it. :/ In this case I'm not concerned, that is the drain for a small bathroom sink, the drain it is flowing into is a washing machine drain. If I do ever encounter a problem I'll know where to look and can make a repair, but I'm pretty confident that in this case it won't do any harm.

Thank you so much for this information, I'm sure at some point in the future I'll be doing more of this, your help is greatly appreciated!

-Isaac

 

[wwhitney]

In this case I'm not concerned

What happened to:

I'm interested in satisfying code not because I need to pass an inspection, but because for the most part code exists to make sure things work properly.

The rubber coupling at the end of the drain needs changing anyway. So you'd only need to add one more rubber coupling to be able to change the san-tee on its back plus 90 to a combo rolled 45 degrees plus a 45. Just confirm that the height works out on the latter combination before cutting into the pipe.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[Terry]

The left is the twisted up Fernco.

 

[Isaac H]

What happened to:


The rubber coupling at the end of the drain needs changing anyway. So you'd only need to add one more rubber coupling to be able to change the san-tee on its back plus 90 to a combo rolled 45 degrees plus a 45. Just confirm that the height works out on the latter combination before cutting into the pipe.

Cheers, Wayne

What happened was I already spent hours upon hours doing that once, and it's working fine and I don't foresee any destructive issues with what I did given the job they have to do.

My job right now is to get my tub working because we're showering at the parents house right now and that needs to end.

As far as the ferncos go, it is worth noting that in my case I have virtually no weight being supported by the ferncos themselves. In each case the pvc is either weight supported by strapping and not putting any pressure on the fernco itself, or the pipe is actually pushed a good way into the cast iron, and either way the fernco itself is performing as merely a seal. I noticed in one your pictures the fernco is supporting a heavy pipe vertically, which does seem like a terrible idea.

 

[Terry]

I think you have this all totally figured out. Your wonky fittings and couplings are good to go.
You don't need to ever run a snake through that, it's open there and easily removable. You can just dismantle if needed. Yep.

 

[wwhitney]

What happened was I already spent hours upon hours doing that once, and it's working fine and I don't foresee any destructive issues with what I did given the job they have to do.

The nice thing about the learning curve is that doing something the second time doesn't take as long. Now obviously getting your tub working is a higher priority. But the other fixes belong on your to do list.

You came and asked for advice, and the advice you're getting is that certain things should be changed. What you do with the advice is up to you. But take a look at this thread again a couple days after you get your tub working, and see what you think then.

Yours, Wayne

 

[Isaac H]

The nice thing about the learning curve is that doing something the second time doesn't take as long. Now obviously getting your tub working is a higher priority. But the other fixes belong on your to do list.

Believe me, I do want to do things right, I know that in the future that fitting does need to be changed to be correct, but I also know that my house isn't going to flood and fall over because I used a sanitary tee, so it's kind of a low priority. But I appreciate you taking the time to point out what's wrong, i now know how to fix it when I get around to it, thank you.

Terry, I appreciate that there is a place that I have been able to find the information that I need, and I posted this because 1. I did not know for sure if my horizontal vent was off limits, and 2. If I could do a 180° vertical change of direction or not. I was not expecting to have the other things I had done ripped apart, although I respect your position and expertise and your input is duly noted. But that coupled with the fact that even though I plainly stated that the picture I took was of a rough fit that was not graded, you apparently did not read my notes in their entirety. I do not wish to cause any problems, I deserve the critiquing of my work as I know it's far from perfect, but believe me when I say, if you think my plumbing is bad, you should have seen what it looked like before. I know that's not an excuse for improper work, but literally nothing was vented, drains running through the bottom third of joists that had been notched out, everything leaked and dripped. it was really really bad. And the fact is, the overhaul required would not have been remotely feasible for us if we paid a professional. I'm quite certain that with everything that needed to be done, it would have cost upwards of 10-15k, and I know for a fact the licensed plumbers in my area have done worse work than I did, I've seen it in person. I really mean no disrespect, but my aim is to have a practical working system that gets the job done, I don't have the knowledge and can not afford to have everything done 100% by the book, I don't have enough time to learn everything there is to know about plumbing if I ever want to actually live here, and I certainly can't do things as well as you would, but I'm doing my best. I didn't demand you to give an answer to my question. I recognize your points about ferncos are not without reason, but it also seems disingenuous to throw out pictures of fixes that are not related to what I actually did and then think that because I'm a novice I can't tell the difference between using a fernco as a seal and using a fernco to support a cast iron pipe. I am learning, and I will be careful to do as you have said in the future, but frankly, yes, the pipes are easily accessible, and if a problem arises, I can dismantle it and fix if needed. I know that a plumbers job is to make things to code, and I did not hit the mark, but if your aim is to educate, maybe you shouldn't sound like you're just trying to show off how much plumbing terminology you know so the noob feels like he's in over his head and needs to use a professional plumber.

With that said, I now know how to approach my current problem, thank you for the advice, I will take it to heart. I will try to be a little more educated on a subject before asking a question in the future so I don't come in here pissing off professionals by being annoyingly amateur, and I apologize if you feel I've wasted your time. Have a good day.

-Isaac

 

[Terry]

I have removed rubber Fernco's on the horizontal plenty of times before, but didn't take pictures. The fittings on the horizontal fare worse than those on the vertical. I'm just saying, you there on the job, now is a good time to pick up the right parts and smooth things out.
Why I mention proper 45's and long 90's? A snake will pass through them easily when needed, and they keep the fluids moving.

Keep this one in mind..........When we broke into plumbing, we weren't allowed to touch waste and vents for at least six months.
We dug ditches, pounded holes in concrete, connected water lines in ditches, and soldered copper pipes, starting at the 1" where it came in the house, and then worked our way back to where the apprentice had been working. It was months before anyone even considered telling us what we were working on. Plenty of insults though, mostly in fun. They wanted to see how much crap we could take if there were going to waste their time telling us how to do it. Having a new guy on the job slowed everybody down at first.
Things a plumber will do:
Crawl in mud to install plumbing in a crawl space.
Kneel in snow while soldering copper in a wall.
Work all day in raingear and rubber boots in the rain.
Climb up on roofs without a life line installing venting.
Busting holes in concrete foundations.
Carrying 300 pound tubs up flights of stairs.
Being mocked by everyone else on the job site.
Other trades wanting to get in fist fights over electrical outlets, cords, parking spaces, boomboxes and who gets to install their stuff first.
One day I shattered two pick ax handles trying to break through the first 10" of frozen earth. They had sent half the crews home for six weeks that Winter, but since I never complained, and could make the work happen, I worked everyday that Winter.

And yes, I am that good.
So are many of the other plumbers too. A little crazy, but we also do enjoy what we do.

 

[Joe the Plumber]

So are many of the other plumbers too. A little crazy, but we also do enjoy what we do.

I wood not call me crazy, but I lik what im doing. Working hard, fer sure. Inspectors and inspections. Constant reminders of what the F is that yer doing? Take it out and fix it, yeah, and the affer a while I figured it out. It's all good. Practice buddy. You should see me change my truck oil too. Got that one down.