Bathroom remodel toilet advice and help needed!!

Discussion in 'Toilet Forum discussions' started by DinoM, Mar 29, 2019.

  1. DinoM

    DinoM New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2019
    Location:
    NC
    Have been lurking this site for over a year now, reading up on the advice and recommendations of toilets, tubs and showers, remodels, etc. I've been planning this remodel over a year, and it has has been one thing after another, and at this point, I don't know whether to scratch my watch or wind my butt! So I figured I should reach out to the wise sages of this forum for help. I have a lot of questions about everything, such as the tub/shower, etc., but I will post those questions to the appropriate forum.

    Now about the toilet. The house was built in 1949. It still has the original toilet in it, a "Standard" that is stamped 4058 29 and April 18, 1950. I don't know if it is a 5 gpf or 3.5 gpf. The width of the bathroom from the finished walls is 59 inches, 57 inches from the baseboard moulding. The rough-in measured from the moulding is exactly 12", but fro the finished wall, which I read is where it should be measured from, is 13" (about 1/2'' or so more if include the shoe moulding. So question #1 will a 12" rough-in work?

    With the room being only 59" wide, all the toilets I've looked at are deeper/longer than what I currently have. Even the compact elongated ones and the round bowls. on some models, assuming a 1-2" clearance from the tank to the wall, would extend out nearly 32" into the room. the recommended clearance from bowl edge to wall is 24", so I'd be ok on that, but would like a little more room just in case I needed a walker or wheelchair in the future.

    Reading this forum, the consensus is that TOTO, particularly the Drake II, seems to be the gold standard. I've read up on them, done my research, read reviews and decided that is what I wanted...the CST743CEFG with the round bowl in ADA height. So I started my quest, and everyone has the Drake II tank, but not the round bowl. I think I'd have have more luck finding Bigfoot mating with a unicorn than finding a Drake II round bowl. One place said it has been on backorder since September 2018, most other places say it is a minimum 6-8 weeks to get one in.

    I am about ready to dig a hole in the backyard and return to the pioneer days. The TOTO spec sheet shows it is 26.5" deep/long, which would be ideal, assuming it doesn't sit too far off the wall or the rough-in causes problems.

    My head is about to explode from looking at all the toilets, trying to find what might work best, and I want it to work best, which is why I wanted a TOTO.

    Apologies fro the lengthy post, wanted to provide as much info as possible, plus I needed to vent a bit. Any advice and /or suggestions, such as other brands/models that may be a good fit, is greatly appreciated.
    Thanks for your time. If I can provide any further info that may be helpful, let me know.
     
  2. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2013
    Location:
    IL
    You are saying that your closet flange has a 13 or so inch rough-in. I mounted a Vespin II with such a rough-in using the included 12-inch Unifit. You should also be able to do the same with an Aquia 4 as well or a Vespin II.

    Here are links of what I did:
    http://www.terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/fitting-toto-to-13-7-16-rough-in-to-wall-but-less-with-baseboard-and-shoe-molding.58080/#post-428138 my unifit mod post
    http://www.terrylove.com/forums/ind...nifit-or-stick-with-the-12.59681/#post-442544 picture with ruler.
    http://www.terrylove.com/forums/ind...rance-with-14-unifit-and-offset-flange.66596/ has marked-up unifit photo.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2019
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  4. DinoM

    DinoM New Member

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    Mar 29, 2019
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    This is something I'm going to let the plumber handle, whatever I end up getting. Does the unifit come with toilet or something I need to buy extra? I am a newbie, so bear with me...a 12" unifit would allow the toilet to sit closer back to the wall. If a unifit wasn't used, that wouldn't cause a problem other than the toilet sitting out a bit further, correct? The tank I currently have sits about 1 1/2" off the wall. There is about 6" from the bottom base of the bowl to the shoe moulding. Ideally I would like 28" from wall to bowl rim edge. That would give me about 31" clearance from front of bowl to opposite wall. The width and height will not pose any problems, just depth.
     
  5. Stuff

    Stuff Well-Known Member

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    Mar 7, 2013
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    If I remember Toto doesn't actually make the ADA height with a round front.

    Welcome to the limitations of an old house. There are millions of homes that are about 60" wide due to 5' bathtub so shouldn't be any surprise with your plumber. Even odd rough-ins are common. With that lots of codes only ask for 21" clearance in front of the bowl.

    From http://starcraftcustombuilders.com/bath.design.rules.htm
    When remodeling bathrooms just 5' wide, which is most baths built from 1945 through 965, the smaller 24” and 21” clear space minimum standard may be unavoidable.​
     
  6. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

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    Sep 25, 2013
    Location:
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    12 inch Unifit comes with the toilet. A 14 inch Unifit costs extra.

    I don't know what percent of plumbers would do what I did. It is certainly not common practice. If I were a plumber, I am not sure I would do it, because if you do something non-standard, you could get blamed for anything that goes wrong, even something unrelated.

    You could ask the question.

    An elongated toilet does not change where your feet are when in use, vs for a round toilet. It does make a difference when you walk by, however.
     
  7. DinoM

    DinoM New Member

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    Mar 29, 2019
    Location:
    NC
    Well I did measure again from the wall and get almost exactly 12" on the left side, and about 13" on the right. So that shouldn't be a problem should it?

    Right now, I have about 6" or less clearance from edge of toilet bowl to edge of a pedestal sink. That was how it was built back in the day. It had a console sink at one time, and that was replaced with a small vanity. Then that was replaced with the pedestal sink, to at least give me some leg room when I sit, rather than having to sit sideways. The plan is to move the sink (the sink drain and supply lines) to the other side of the room beside the toilet, replacing the pedestal with a 24" vanity to provide some storage. So maybe I'm making too much out of it, because it would look like a football field between the bowl and wall without the sink.

    The Drake II round bowl does come in ADA height, the Drake does not. I'm getting to that age where my knees don't want to work as well as they used to and I think I would like the ADA height, which I don't have now. As far as elongated vs round, I have no preference. Been using a round bowl nearly all my life. I thought I might like the elongated bowl until I realized the space implications.

    As far as tracking down a Drake II round bowl, I've stuck to plumbing supply stores. Kinda scared to order online and it get cracked or broken during shipping. But even looking at Lowe's, their estimated ship date was in August. I though I had found one at a supply house about 60 miles away, the guy (who was new on the job) assured me he had the tank and round bowl in stock, I even confirmed with him the model numbers for both the tank and round bowl. Needless to say, I get there, and he proceeds to wheel out the correct tank, bu an elongated bowl!! And it was going to be 8n weeks or more to get a round bowl back in stock!! Now the contractor is mad at me because he wanted to start in a couple of weeks. This has been a cluster from the get-go, and I'm afraid it is only going to get worse.
     
  8. WorthFlorida

    WorthFlorida The wife is still training me.

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    Retired
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    All around 1950's both well before and after, cast iron pipes were used for drains almost everywhere. When your toilet was roughed 69 years ago and dealing with heavy iron pipes and pre-cast elbows, to be off an inch or so may have been unavoidable.

    I know what you mean about the knees but you'll want the elongated, it catches the drips better.:rolleyes:
     
  9. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

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    Just to be clear, we are talking about the wall behind the toilet, right? You won't know the full situation until you pull the toilet and see the closet flange.
     
  10. DinoM

    DinoM New Member

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    Yes, I measured from the wall behind the toilet. And the drains were cast iron, and I had them replaced with PVC nearly 20 years ago. The floor is going to be redone, not sure of the condition of the subfloor, but i think it is good except in one spot at the corner of the tub where water leaked behind the shower curtain and caused some rot. Not sure if I'm going to go with porcelain tile or luxury vinyl tile. LVT would speed up the process. Surely they would replace the closet flange re-doing the floor.
     
  11. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

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    New England
    With 12+ inches, a 12" RI toilet will fit fine. It may be that your toilet is sitting slightly canted. FWIW, you can usually fudge the toilet's position on the flange up to maybe 3/8", so you might be able to slide it back a little bit.

    If you choose a Toto that uses the UniFit adapter (only some do), it will come with a 12" RI version as part of the toilet. The Drake II does not use the UniFit adapter.
     
  12. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

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    It doesn't work that way. If you want it done, you will need to have it done. The flooring guys can routely lift a toilet and put it back on top of the new flooring with a new wax ring.

    Were you making a funny?
     
  13. DinoM

    DinoM New Member

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    No, I wasn't making a funny, more like being a dummy.;) My plumbing knowledge is quite limited. I ASSUMED they would replace the flange, but you know what the saying is about that. From my understanding, the contractor is going to tear out the walls and floor, have the plumber and electrician do there rough-in work and then he would hang the drywall, put the floor down and put in the tub/shower unit, then have the plumber come back to put on the tub trim and install the toilet. I'll definitely tell both the contractor and plumber that I would like a new flange. But if I can't find a toilet, it's all going to be moot.
     
  14. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

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    If you can get a new toilet flange at 12 or 11.5 inch rough-in from the wall, there is a wide choice of toilets that will be close to the wall. In that case, what do you want in a toilet.

    When you sit on the toilet looking straight ahead, are you looking at the pedestal sink? Maybe you could replace that sink with something more compact.

    For your new closet flange, I suggest you get one with a stainless steel ring. The cost adder is not that much over plastic ring.
     
  15. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

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    If they're going to replace the floor and plumbing...make sure that the flange is at 12" from the FINISHED wall. Then, you'll have an unlimited number of toilets that will physically fit. While most have some gap behind them, not all do, but all will fit (assuming they're a 12" design) when the flange is really at 12". This also assumes that the wall is actually plumb, which may or may not be on an old house.

    It's not uncommon to install the flange on the subflooring, but they are designed and work best when installed on top of the finished floor. If you're planning tile, depending on what you put down after the subflooring, the flange could be recessed quite a bit and a wax ring blowout is possible if you aggressively plunge a stopped toilet that generally won't happen if it is installed on top of the floor rather than recessed.
     
  16. DinoM

    DinoM New Member

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    The only big plumbing change is going to be moving the supply lines and drain for the sink. When I sit on the toilet now, I look directly at the sink, and only have 10" of space between the edge of the sink and the edge of the toilet (it being a pedestal sink I have more room underneath the sink bowl in terms of legroom). Plan to move the sink to the opposite side of the room with the toilet. No plan on moving the toilet drain. I am pretty sure the wall behind the toilet is not plumb. The tank sits about 1" off the wall on the right side, and almost 2" on the left.

    I guess I am overthinking this. Just trying to figure out how to maximize the space, to have at least 30-32" of space between the rim of the toilet bowl to the opposing wall.
     
  17. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

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    I don't think you are overthinking this. It is worth taking your time on.
     
  18. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

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    It's very possible that the toilet isn't perpendicular to the wall. Most tanks, once attached to the bowl (assuming it's a 2-piece) wouldn't have enough variance to make a 1" difference side-to-side.

    Different models of toilet can have quite a big difference in the space behind them, even with the same rough-in. They all assume that you've installed it perpendicular to the wall, though. The nominal spacing is usually shown in the spec sheet for that model. It can vary a little bit, but generally, not much.
     
  19. DinoM

    DinoM New Member

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    A couple of years ago I had to have a new flush and fill valve put in, and the tank at the time was leaning back almost against the wall. The plumber removed the tank to replace the flush valve and seal, and put the tank back on where it wasn't leaning.

    There is practically nothing in the house that is square, at least not the doors and windows. It will be interesting to see what problems or issues that creates with the remodel. I probably should be more worried that floor under the tub/shower unit is very level. It is going the be a Sterling Ensemble Medley and I have read that there can be issues with cracking if it isn't level. But everything is on hold until I decide on and get a toilet. Work was supposed to start this week, but I told the contractor to put me on hold and start on other work he has lined up until I get that issue resolved.
     
  20. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

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    Many tub manufacturers call for setting the tub in mortar. IF done right, that will support the bottom well to prevent cracking, and let the installer level it in the process. To make this work, you use piles, dp not try to make a level surface. The piles give the mortar room to spread out. Place some plastic on the floor and over the piles. This helps it retain the moisture needed to cure rather than being absorbed by the wooden subflooring, and the piece on top helps the tub to slide a bit, and prevents it from adhering to the tub for when you remodel again.
     
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