SoConfused
Member
Here's a pic of the distance with the cast iron. Should be very similar but I can go down and measure with the PVC if that would be helpful. Would just take me about 10 minutes. Let me know if I should do that.
Back to Back Toilets: Double Fixture vs Double Wye
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Here's a pic of the distance with the cast iron. Should be very similar but I can go down and measure with the PVC if that would be helpful. Would just take me about 10 minutes. Let me know if I should do that.
wwhitney
In the Trades
OK, you have another issue there--the tub is not vented. In the configuration shown, it would need a vent connection between the trap and the wye where it joins the washer/kitchen/lav. Is that galvanized pipe the lav?
Cheers, Wayne
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Yes,
Now the far end of the home, how are those fixtures vented? I see a 2" p-trap without venting, and perhaps the washer upstream of it? That would need a vent before entering the main 2" line there.
I can already see that the double wye and the long 90, or 3" combo if you go that route drops it too far.
SoConfused
Member
Wayne - The galvanized pipe is a vent pipe.
Terry - The washer/dryer is vented where it enters the drain. Let me find that pic. Based on the measurement pic for the cast iron, do I need to go down and measure the PVC and send a new pic?
Terry - The washer/dryer is vented where it enters the drain. Let me find that pic. Based on the measurement pic for the cast iron, do I need to go down and measure the PVC and send a new pic?
SoConfused
Member
I didn't do any of the plumbing upline. That was all replaced prior to me buying the house.
SoConfused
Member
Hey guys - I need to jump off soon to go mow before the rain comes but I don't want to miss any further comments. If I sign off before I hear back I'll check in when I'm off the mower.
Wayne - are you still willing to do a drawing for me and if so, do you need any more pictures?
Terry - Does my washer venting look correct? How do I support your site for the help you and the guys have given me?? Do I just put money in your tip jar? This is the first DIY forum I've used so I don't know how it works but I'm grateful for the help and want to respond appropriately!
Wayne - are you still willing to do a drawing for me and if so, do you need any more pictures?
Terry - Does my washer venting look correct? How do I support your site for the help you and the guys have given me?? Do I just put money in your tip jar? This is the first DIY forum I've used so I don't know how it works but I'm grateful for the help and want to respond appropriately!
wwhitney
In the Trades
Measuring the PVC may be needed but can wait for now. You seem to have a number of upstream issues, so the question is what are your immediate goals? E.g.
1) Just do something to address the current problem with the WC functionality, nothing else
2) Formulate a plan to fix everything, but only fix the WC issue for now (with a solution that facilitates future fixes upstream)
3) Fix everything
The answer to that question will determine what additional pictures are required and the scope of the drawing. Answer (1) I could draw now, but I favor (2) or (3), and that would require enough pictures/description to understand all the pipes upstream of your two WCs.
Cheers, Wayne
1) Just do something to address the current problem with the WC functionality, nothing else
2) Formulate a plan to fix everything, but only fix the WC issue for now (with a solution that facilitates future fixes upstream)
3) Fix everything
The answer to that question will determine what additional pictures are required and the scope of the drawing. Answer (1) I could draw now, but I favor (2) or (3), and that would require enough pictures/description to understand all the pipes upstream of your two WCs.
Cheers, Wayne
Since the 2
Many of the folks here love to help others. I've asked a few here to add tip jars to their signatures so that people can show their appreciation.
No rules for the most part though. We're pretty easy going.
I don't know how your washer is vented.
Like Wayne mentioned, we're guessing the first issue is the fix on the two toilets so that you're not losing water.
Terry - How do I support your site for the help you and the guys have given me?? Do I just put money in your tip jar? This is the first DIY forum I've used so I don't know how it works but I'm grateful for the help and want to respond appropriately!
Many of the folks here love to help others. I've asked a few here to add tip jars to their signatures so that people can show their appreciation.
No rules for the most part though. We're pretty easy going.
I don't know how your washer is vented.
Like Wayne mentioned, we're guessing the first issue is the fix on the two toilets so that you're not losing water.
Maybe something like this.
The last toilet drops into a combo fitting with a cleanout on the end.
The far plumbing comes in after the toilets, a 3x2 wye.
The 3" vent for the toilets.
This way the toilet waste drops down and out toward the septic smoothly.
The last toilet drops into a combo fitting with a cleanout on the end.
The far plumbing comes in after the toilets, a 3x2 wye.
The 3" vent for the toilets.
This way the toilet waste drops down and out toward the septic smoothly.
SoConfused
Member
Thanks Wayne and Terry! You are correct that my primary concern right now is fixing the toilet issue. I've been here since 2003 and the only issue I've had is clogs in the 90 elbow going to the septic after the drainage pipe exits the foundation. I've already converted to PVC all the way out past that elbow and put a cleanout on the outside of the house. I know that's more info than you need but yes - main concern right now is the toilets.
I think I can do everything in your drawing except for waiting to connect the 2 inch pipe until it's downstream of the toilets. I can't swing that 2 inch run to the side without replumbing all of it. I'm thinking I do what you've drawn except put the 3x2 wye just upstream of the first WC . I can add a cleanout just upstream of that or between that and the combo fitting.
Will that work?
wwhitney
In the Trades
It's important that the 2" drain line come in downstream of both WCs, so that's not an adjustment you can make. Looking at the pictures in the OP, if you want to keep the 2" line coming in at the same approach as currently, and likewise for the 3" line after the WCs, then I think you could modify Terry's idea as per the drawing below.
Judging from the pictures in the OP, as seen from above, an imaginary line connecting the 2 toilet flanges is at an angle to the lower drain line, and the vent is located at their intersection. So the idea is to change the WC/vent/WC branch in Terry's drawing from being alongside the 2" line to being directly above the 2" line.
If you take a 3" wye fitting, and put a 3" street 45 into the branch inlet so that the wye straight inlet and the 45's hub inlet are parallel to each other, then the two inlets are a little under 5-7/8" apart, center line to center line. So your new upper 3" line would be 5-7/8" above the lower line; or it could be 6-7/8" (if you use a regular 45 with the outlet hub touching the wye hub) or any amount more, but the smaller number will leave you more room above. Again, that's center line to center line.
I think, but it bears checking, that the downstream WC is sufficiently offset from the upper 3" line that you could use a closet bend directly into a horizontal 3" wye to connect that (if necessary, a street quarter bend is your tightest option for entering a horizontal wye). [There are other options if that won't fit.]
And then at the upstream WC, the combo would be rotated so that it's at a 22.5 degree or 45 degree angle to the primary 3" line (whatever fits without overshooting the mark) , hitting a horizontal elbow at the correct point to turn to be directly over the lower line. [Again, there are other options if that won't fit.]
Cheers, Wayne
Judging from the pictures in the OP, as seen from above, an imaginary line connecting the 2 toilet flanges is at an angle to the lower drain line, and the vent is located at their intersection. So the idea is to change the WC/vent/WC branch in Terry's drawing from being alongside the 2" line to being directly above the 2" line.
If you take a 3" wye fitting, and put a 3" street 45 into the branch inlet so that the wye straight inlet and the 45's hub inlet are parallel to each other, then the two inlets are a little under 5-7/8" apart, center line to center line. So your new upper 3" line would be 5-7/8" above the lower line; or it could be 6-7/8" (if you use a regular 45 with the outlet hub touching the wye hub) or any amount more, but the smaller number will leave you more room above. Again, that's center line to center line.
I think, but it bears checking, that the downstream WC is sufficiently offset from the upper 3" line that you could use a closet bend directly into a horizontal 3" wye to connect that (if necessary, a street quarter bend is your tightest option for entering a horizontal wye). [There are other options if that won't fit.]
And then at the upstream WC, the combo would be rotated so that it's at a 22.5 degree or 45 degree angle to the primary 3" line (whatever fits without overshooting the mark) , hitting a horizontal elbow at the correct point to turn to be directly over the lower line. [Again, there are other options if that won't fit.]
Cheers, Wayne
This represents my sleazy idea. The red represents a cap of some sort. This does not follow the rules of wet venting, but I expect it would work. I could even see changing out the left toilet's closet bend, and joining the flow downstream of that pipe coming in from the side. Or move that pipe's path too. A plumber would not suggest this, because it is totally not in agreement with any plumbing code. What Terry and Wayne suggest are much better.
Regarding your well, I expect your pump runs pretty often because your tank is small. A 44 gallon pressure tank, or even a 32 gallon tank would improve that. Or you could use a CSV.
If you do any changes along that line, replace galvanized pipe as you do it. Galvanized pipe rusts.
Regarding your well, I expect your pump runs pretty often because your tank is small. A 44 gallon pressure tank, or even a 32 gallon tank would improve that. Or you could use a CSV.
If you do any changes along that line, replace galvanized pipe as you do it. Galvanized pipe rusts.
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SoConfused
Member
Thanks for that additional option Wayne. Not being familiar with all of the fittings makes it hard to visualize it. I'll have to look up pics of each fitting and go down there and look at it piece by piece to completely understand everything.
SoConfused
Member
Hi Reach4 - Thanks for your "sleazy" suggestion.
I'll take all ideas at this point. As for the cistern tank, that's no longer operational. In fact after I finished the PVC work I cut that out so it's not even there any more. A couple of years ago I filled the cistern with concrete because it's underneath my patio and the walls were caving in.
SoConfused
Member
All - I was hoping to do this right away but it's clearly going to be more involved than I originally thought. My elderly mother is here until the end of the month so I'm going to wait until she leaves to take the time to gather the fittings and start cutting pipe. I work full time and it will take me a weekend to check, check and re-check what I need to do and then actually do it. As much as I want to be DONE with this major project I already THOUGHT was finished, I don't want to take that time away from visiting with her.
SoConfused
Member
One more question Wayne. Why is it important that the 2 inch line not join the 3 inch line until it's downstream of the WCs?
wwhitney
In the Trades
I went ahead and labeled all the fittings in my version of the drawing, below.
As far as visualizing the drawing, the main thing that may not be immediately obvious is that everything lies in a single vertical plane, except the two WCs and their connections. So that elbow labeled "22.5 or 45" and upstream of it is kicked out of that plane to one side. And the branch inlet of the 3" wye by the other WC kicks that WC out to the other side of that plane.
That's all assuming I've correctly interpreted your photos.
Cheers, Wayne
SoConfused
Member
Ok, those extra details will certainly help! And why is it important that the 2 inch line join the 3 inch after the WCs?
wwhitney
In the Trades
It's a consequence of two requirements: First, that every fixture be vented before (dry vent) or as (wet vent) its fixture drain joins another drain. And second, that horizontal wet venting is restricted to bathroom fixtures.
So in the drawing just above, the right hand WC gets its dry vent connection before the second WC comes in. And the second WC is wet vented by the first WC. As the 2" line is carrying non-bathroom fixtures, if it joined the first WC after its vent but before the 2nd WC, that would make the 2nd WC's wet vent non-compliant. And if the 2" line joined the first WC before its dry vent comes off, that would violate the "vent before joining other drains" rule.
Now if you were to separate the upstream 2" line into two separate parallel drains, one with bathroom fixtures only, and one with the kitchen/laundry, then only the kitchen/laundry would have to join the 3" line downstream of the WCs. And the line with the bathroom fixtures could be used to wet vent the WCs. But I imagine doing that is more trouble that it's worth.
Cheers, Wayne
