1st Time Homeowner Well Woes

[SuzanneB]

Let me start by saying I've been scouring the web to try and figure out what to do for my water situation. Only finding bits and pieces that pertain to me I thought it best to just lay out my situation and see if I could get answers here. I am CLEARLY not a plumber so I'll lay out as much information as I have and hope someone can help.

I live in Southern Vermont. I recently had a home built and had to dig 2 wells, the 1st over 500 feet deep caved in on itself so a 2nd had to be drilled nearly 600 feet from the house. The 2nd well is 267 feet deep with 265 feet of casing (6") the static water level is 28' and it yields 30 gpm.

As soon as we hooked it up to the house it was evident we have an iron problem so I recently had the water tested. Results as follows:

Total Coliform: negative
Color: <5
Turbidity: 34
Odor: none detected
PH: 6.4
Conductivity: 495
Alkalinity, Tot (CaCO3): 174
Hardness as CaCO3, Total: 179
Nitrate as N: .01
Iron: 3.10
Manganese: .39
Chloride: 42
Sulfate: 16

From the data above I am trying to figure out what type "system" will be best to serve my house. I'm looking for a whole house filtration system to take care of all the issues.

I have spent the last week searching out the different options to remove the iron and think I've landed on the Katalox Light medium but would like some guidance as to how large a system would be needed and any other necessities to make it work exceptionally well.

I researched how to figure out my flow rate and have the following information. One website said to run my water until the pressure pump "clicked" start a stopwatch and run the water again until it clicked a second time. I did this twice and got 17 seconds each time. It then said to fill up gallon containers until it clicked again...I filled up slightly under 2.5 gallons. I do not however know how to convert this into the flow rate, but hopefully someone here will

Some websites stated that if I used Katalox Light I may or may not need a way to oxidize the iron before going through the system. Some say that a holding tank with added chemicals (peroxide or chlorine) to give the iron time to become ferric (I hope I'm using the correct form) before it should go through the filter is necessary. Others say it is not. Some indicate using an air injection system is the way to go, others say it doesn't give enough time for the iron to oxidize, while others complain it adds too much air to system and there are better ways. What I'm hoping for is a complete iron removal down to nothing. If your suggestion is to add chlorine or peroxide, will adding a water softener (since I am only 1 grain away from "very hard" water anyway), remove the chlorine?

With my PH being only 6.4 the Katalox states it will be effective but most websites said it's too low and will hurt my plumbing system if I don't use a neutralizer (soda ash?) Others say once it's gone through the filtration the PH often raises to acceptable levels if it's not TOO LOW from the beginning. Thoughts?

Almost all sites I visited said I should add a reverse osmosis filter at the kitchen sink if I'm going to use a softener at all, so I assume this will be the recommendation here as well, but PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE tell me your thoughts on:

A. What components of this system are completely necessary for my situation.
B. What order should they be installed (I'm certainly not going to be attempting this myself....I'd just like a guideline for the local plumber)
C. What "size" system will I need.

I should probably mention there are 2 full time residents in the house. 3 kids come every other weekend and we have a dishwasher and washing machine. 2 full Bathrooms.

Any help would be so greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance for your time and knowledge.
Suzanne

 

[Mialynette2003]

The simpler the better. With chlorine injection, there is more maintenance. With Katalox, you may or may not get the results you want. I prefer BIRM (Best Iron Removal Media). I use this with air injection and without and have been sucessful at removing the iron. BIRM does has its limitations. The pH must be over 6.8. I believe your first step should be to raise the pH followed by an iron removal system and then a softener. If chlorine is used, raised the pH first, inject chlorine into a retention tank, followed by a automatic backwashing carbon filter then a softener. Temperature of the water is also a factor. I live in Fla so what works great for me may not work for you. Call some of the local dealers and ask what they use to remove the iron.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Reach4]

I researched how to figure out my flow rate and have the following information. One website said to run my water until the pressure pump "clicked" start a stopwatch and run the water again until it clicked a second time. I did this twice and got 17 seconds each time. It then said to fill up gallon containers until it clicked again...I filled up slightly under 2.5 gallons. I do not however know how to convert this into the flow rate, but hopefully someone here will

First, this tells us that your pressure tank is undersized or is failing. Instead of 17 seconds, ideally it should take 60 seconds or more. 30 seconds is not terrible. 17 kinda is.

60/17*2.4= 8.47 GPM

 

[SuzanneB]

First, this tells us that your pressure tank is undersized or is failing. Instead of 17 seconds, ideally it should take 60 seconds or more. 30 seconds is not terrible. 17 kinda is.

60/17*2.4= 8.47 GPM

Thank you for your response.

Does the distance to the house and the size of the pump itself have anything to do with this? Our original well was drilled right in front of the house not more than 50 feet, so the pump was purchased to accommodate that distance. When the 2nd well had to be dug so far away I called the plumbing supply place where the pump was purchased because I had concerns that it was too small and not powerful enough to get the water to the house efficiently at 600 feet. I was told that it would work, but from your comment I'm having 2nd thoughts. The pressure tank is not even a year old so I'm hoping it's not failing it's an Amtol Water Pro WP-32. Would you think it's the distance or legitimately undersized?

 

[Reach4]

Amtol Water Pro WP-32

I suspect you mean a PL-32, which is a 32 gallon tank. That is big enough for many pumps. That should have given you about 8 gallons or more. If you are getting 2.4 gallons, there is a problem with your method or the tank.

The fact that you are getting a reasonable/believable 8.47 GPM with your numbers would tend to make the 2.4 gallon number believable... Yet that is an awfully small drawdown.... check the model number of that tank again.

Repeat the drawdown volume test: Make the pump run by turning on a faucet. As soon as the pump starts, turn off the faucet. When the pump stops, note the pressure. Turn off power to the pump. Turn off the valve that connects to the rest of the house. Drain water from the drain valve, until empty, and measure. To measure water, you could measure the weight increase of a storage container on your bathroom scale. Or you could use a volume measure.

If you can, watch the pressure gauge, and note the pressure before it makes the big drop.

The reason for turning off the valve is to keep the pipes in the house from supplying the water.

You should check the air precharge on the tank while the water pressure is zero. I don't see the precharge causing your symptoms, unless the precharge was too high. If that had been the case, you would have had a pressure stutter each time the pump turned on.

This drawdown volume test would not be affected by pipe distance or size.

 

[SuzanneB]

I'll need a 2nd person to help me with this as the faucets are upstairs and the tank is downstairs. As soon as I have the answers I'll repost. Thank you again!

 

[ditttohead]

Iron and manganese reduction can be difficult. What may work in one area may not work in another. As noted your pH is a little low for traditional iron reduction methods and raising your pH is highly advised. This can be done with either a calcite/corosex based system which adds some hardness. The calcite/corosex system can also be fairly effective at some iron reduction. Follow this with a simple KL system. Some injection may be desirable. Either air, H2o2, or chlorine. Air is the cheapest but many people are a little disappointed in the performance and the air in the lines can be a little annoying. Air relief valves downline may help. H2o2 is the most effective in most applications and the need to remove the h2o2 after treatment is typically not necessary. Chlorine is highly effective but it needs to be very accurately injected and it should be removed prior to use.

Water treatment is going to based on your budget and final water quality desire. Are you willing to add additional equipment later? A simple treatment method can be tried with the understanding that more equipment may need to be added if the results are not as good as expected.

 

[Reach4]

I'll need a 2nd person to help me with this as the faucets are upstairs and the tank is downstairs. As soon as I have the answers I'll repost. Thank you again!

I think you are saying that you need the upstairs faucet to draw water to make the pump cut on. You can use the drain faucet near the bottom of the tank for that too, in addition to drawing the water you will measure. If you had a short hose, such as is used for the drain on a dehumidifier, that would be handy to move the water where you want. If you had an old (preferably retired) garden hose, you could cut it down to maybe 5 or 6 ft long. https://www.walmart.com/ip/WaterWorks-Garden-Hose/20470685

If you are only slightly daring, you could start the pump by poking (momentarily) the white plastic thing in the pressure switch toward the contacts while the pressure is at an intermediate value.

 

[Reach4]

B. What order should they be installed (I'm certainly not going to be attempting this myself....I'd just like a guideline for the local plumber)

I am going to presume you mean what order things are in the path so that you know what to leave room for. This would be typical order with KL, but you would not have all of these things. I may have left out stuff. And others may have a different opinion.

position injector turbulator for H2O2 or bleach solution if used (if metering pump runs when the well pump runs)
Pressure switch and pressure tank and pressure gauge and low drain valve with GHT
Shutoff valve for house water
alternate position for injector turbulator for H2O2 or bleach solution if used (requires proportional injection)
KL tank (leave room for 15 gallon solution tank for backwashes if added)
GAC tank if used
pressure gauge or tap with GHT(optional)
cartridge whole house water filter(s). I like Pentek Big Blue 20x4.5 housings.
tap with GHT(optional). Draw drinking water from here for jug if you want mineral water or water with less sodium or watering plants. You can also mount a pressure gauge here to determine drop through filters.
softener

Also, Ditttohead talked of hydrogen peroxide (H2O2). The usual supposition is that it costs more is true to a point. However the amounts are so small that the cost difference is not significant.

 

[Mikey]

Do we know how the cut-in and cut-off pressures are set?

 

[SuzanneB]

Hello all. Just had a plumber come over because of the concern with how short the time was between the pump coming on. He adjusted the pressure in the tank and we re-ran the test. It's now a little over 60 seconds between "clicks" and a little over 8 gallons. So I think at least that part is set

Assuming this is as straight forward as my flow rate is now 8 gpm now with less stress on the pump from cycling. You may ask why I'm on this forum instead of just asking him what do do about the other parts of my problem but if you'd met him you'd understand. haha.

 

[ditttohead]

LOL, understand.
As to H2o2 vs chlorine, this is an old topic that is nothing more than a Ford vs. Chevy thing to some water guys. Some swear that one is absolutely better than the other. I am happy with both but...

Sometimes chlorine works better, sometimes H2o2 works better, most of the time either works fine. Fortunately they can usually be interchanged in the field if necessary.
H202 is typically sold in a higher concentration and your injection amount is about 50% less than chlorine for the treatment of iron, manganese, or H2s so the slightly higher cost is offset by the more efficient usage.
Overdosing chlorine... very bad and considering a pool is usually run at 2 ppm..., overdosing h2o2, considered relatively safe up to 15 ppm
For bacterial control, chlorine is sometime preferred as it is considered by the industry as a sure fire way to control ecoli etc... if h2o2 is used a backup ie:UV light must be used... I would still highly recommend that if chlorine were used anyway as redundancy is important should the chlorine injection system fail anyway.

Byproducts of chlorine are well documented and understood. Byproduct of h2o2... oxygen which can be annoying in the water when overdosed the water can look cloudy/airy/milky.

I could go on but I think I covered the most important points. I have actually swayed my views from chlorine to h2o2 over the past several years as our in house lab and test facility has shown the h2o2 benefits over chlorines potential problems become more apparent with regular use.

Lastly... chlorine can be bought at any grocery store... h2o2 is not as readily available.

 

[SuzanneB]

Thank you for the input. As far as where the injection takes place (for both the chlorine/h2o2 (oxidation) and soda ash (ph)) I'm wondering how to go about this. Some places state it should be at the well with an injection system and others in the house. I'd of course prefer to do something in the house because the well is SO far and I'm assuming electricity would need to be involved and running another wire isn't super cost effective. Does the system go before the pressure tank or after and is there a holding tank required to provide time for it to properly oxidize?

Please let me know.

Thanks again.

 

[ditttohead]

Putting the chemical injection pumps at the house is fine but does require a slightly different approach. When it is installed at the well before the tank, the water flow rate is known and typically does not vary so the injection pump can be a simple design. When it is installed at the house, it requires a variable feed rate pump (meter controlled) which adds a little cost and complexity but with the newer pumps it is actually fairly easy. A baffled contact tank is recommended but using h2o2, the contact time is not a critical especially when using KL. The injected h2o2 acts as a constant regnerant on the KL media. A contact tank also takes a lot of load off the KL system by allowing the iron etc to precipitate out rather than be physically removed by the KL system.