14" Rough-In Toilet Choices

Discussion in 'Toilet Forum discussions' started by cgskiking, Sep 30, 2009.

  1. Reach4

    Reach4 Active Member

    Messages:
    2,235
    Location:
    IL
    With the Unifit system, what holds the front of the toilet in place? I suspect that a screw gets put into those two access ports on the aft base to hold the rear in place. [​IMG]
  2. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    22,006
    Location:
    New England
    You use flange bolts in the rear section (which is why that area has four bolts holding it to the floor), and that plus gravity hold the toilet down. Code in most places requires the toilet to be sealed around the bottom, and that helps a lot on a tiled floor that has very little friction between the toilet and the tile. Polyseamseal works well, and is a lot easier to remove if you ever do want to remove the toilet verses say silicon.
  3. arcnsparc

    arcnsparc New Member

    Messages:
    2
    Location:
    minneapolis
    Hi Terry, your advice on the forums are greatly appreciated.
    I accidentally placed a toilet with a 12" rough in, for what was meant to be a 14" rough in. It's slightly less than 28" (front to back). Is there a 14" rough in toilet you recommend that's a two piece model and round bowl under 30"? My goal is to find that compact toilet for a 14" rough in but in a two piece.

    Thanks!
  4. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,004
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    There's not really a market for that.
    The manufacturers figure that if someone is looking to spend a little, they already have the 12" bowls. Yes, they do stick out there a ways.

    There "does" seem to be a market when more money is spent. TOTO is the only one shifting the bowl back toward the wall. So far, the others are only willing to sell a fat tank for a 12" bowl.
    The two piece TOTO Vespin II with a 14" Unifit is what I normally use there. It's not a cheap toilet though.

    Kohler round bowl 30.375" from wall to end of bowl
    American Standard Cadet 3 round bowl, 30.25" from wall to end of bowl
    TOTO Drake round front, 29.5" from wall to end of bowl.
    Vespin II elongated with 14" kit, 28.75" from wall to end of bowl.
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2013
  5. gerggyb

    gerggyb New Member

    Messages:
    2
    Location:
    Ames, IA
    hi. i have been reading here and elsewhere and am trying to become a quick expert! i have an old house with a 14" rough in. i see clearly that you guys really, really like the toto toilets. here is my situation however, my water supply comes up through the floor at 6.5" left of center. if i understand correctly, that is too close to the toilet to work with the unifit system. if that is correct, what are my other options?!
    here in central iowa, i have found two toilets within driving distance from me. one if the gerber viper (whose depth is 31"). the other is the peerless madison (whose depth is 27.25"). the peerless is a 'true' 14" toilet in that it does not just have the extra wide tank. ascetically, that would be best for me. did i mention the bathroom is pretty darn small?
    so, do i have other options? or to put it another way, are these two toilets really worthless? my current toilet has no name on it, sits 27" away from the wall, and needs plunging several times a week...

    thanks!
  6. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    22,006
    Location:
    New England
    What's underneath that room? It may not be all that big a deal to move the water supply over (even if it is tiled), or to move it up into the wall. With the right tools, it's probably less than 10-minutes to make a nice clean hole through tile and the subflooring, then, moving the pipe may or may not take awhile, but with good access, it's not a huge job.
  7. Reach4

    Reach4 Active Member

    Messages:
    2,235
    Location:
    IL
    How close to the toilet centerline does your plumbing go? If the pipe and attachments are centered 6.5 inches left of center, and the max diameter is 1 inch, then you could use a base that was narrower than 12 inches. That could be done. So the pipe diameter and what is screwed into that pipe would be factors.
  8. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,004
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    The Gerber Viper specs well. A bit on the long side for you.

    The Peerless I can't find the map score.
    It does look like you have a choice of bowls though. The web information is a little sparce.
  9. gerggyb

    gerggyb New Member

    Messages:
    2
    Location:
    Ames, IA
    thanks guys.
    i went with the peerless (form over function). it fits the space. i will admit it shows the signs of a cheap company: plastic handle, no installation instructions. however, it is still a lo-low toilet (1.6) and it doesn't run. i see this as an opportunity for data collection; i will check in over the next year and let y'all know if its still working. it could be that it doesn't last, it could be that it turns out to be just fine...

    thanks again
  10. Reach4

    Reach4 Active Member

    Messages:
    2,235
    Location:
    IL
    That's different: the 10, 12, and 14 inch rough-in use the same tank but different bowl. http://www.peerlesspottery.com/toilet_7160-7161-7164.html

    http://www.peerlesspottery.com/toilet_independence.html has the more common same-bowl-different-tank. The description says "Made possible, in part, by the 1st fully automated pressure cast bowl machines in the U.S." Are they new machines, or did they pick up vintage machines? :)
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2013
  11. waldoinc

    waldoinc New Member

    Messages:
    6
    Location:
    Arkansas
    Hello, having read all the posts on this thread today, I have decided to try and describe my problem. When my plumber got ready to rough-in my master bath's private toilet, he discovered that the HVAC guys had put ductwork where the toilet plumbing was supposed to go. This meant that the toilet had to be moved several inches further away from the wall than desired. This has left a gaping space behind the Delta toilet I had installed. Plus, although the inside-opening door clears the toilet, it does so by only a scant few inches. We would be much better served if the toilet could be moved back toward the wall as much as possible, and to improve clearance from the door as well. What I am asking is, does the Toto Vespin II offer the best possible adjustment in this regard, in conjunction with the 14" Unifit? Keep in mind that I have several inches to work with behind the toilet, but cannot move anything underneath it. I have not yet measured the location of the water supply in the wall to make sure it will not obstruct, although I doubt that will matter because of the space available.
  12. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,004
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    The Vespin II is 28-1/4" long, and normally has 3/4" behind it on a 12" rough. Using the 14" Unift, you can pull it closer to the wall 2"
    There aren't too many toilet bowls you can do that with.
    What is your current rough, and how far is the bowl from the back wall?
  13. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    22,006
    Location:
    New England
    Most (not all) 14" rough-in toilets project into the room an extra 2" verses their 12" cousin, but to fill the area behind them, they get a thicker tank. Toto uses the same toilet, and compensates with their UniFit adapter, so the same toilet will sit in exactly the same position in the room if it is on a 10, 12, or 14" Unifit, as long as it matches up with the 10, 12, or 14" rough-in. When installed that way, most of them have about 3/4" clearance behind the tank to the wall. The Vespin II is a nice toilet...I have an older Vespin and a Carlyle in my home, and they have been trouble-free for going on ten years now. Depending on your water, with what I have, I find I need to replace the flapper valve about every 5-years ,as it eventually softens and then starts to sag and leak. Some report much longer, and some woefully shorter (if they use chemicals in the tank, but that's true of any brand for the most part). I have the fill valve made for Toto by Korky (they do use a couple of other suppliers), and I've needed to replace the seal on one of them once (about a 2-minute job, no tools required). The parts are readily available locally (Lowes, most hardware stores, some other big box stores)...so, I've been happy.
  14. waldoinc

    waldoinc New Member

    Messages:
    6
    Location:
    Arkansas
    Hi Terry, I did not find the receipt yet, but I think it is a Delta Prelude round front with a 12" rough-in. I bought three of them at Home Depot. I forgot to measure any of this last night, but I would say that the back of the toilet is at least eight inches away from the wall. I had talked to my plumber and had (ignorantly) hoped that I could get a toilet with a 14" rough-in and then use an adapter and get it moved back toward the wall a total of 4", gaining that same additional clearance between the toilet and the door. If this would work it would go a long way toward fixing a totally unnecessary mistake. That toilet looks awkward sitting so far away from the wall, and the door cannot be closed while sitting on the toilet.
    American Standard made a 14" rough-in, comfort height with a round front, #2757.016, that I thought would allow my solution, but they have discontinued it. Reading this thread yesterday made me think it would not have worked anyway.
  15. Reach4

    Reach4 Active Member

    Messages:
    2,235
    Location:
    IL
    Were you your own general contractor? Somebody messed up, and maybe you can get some help in making it right.

    Put in the 12-inch rough-in and adjust the HVAC ducts to accommodate. From what I have seen, an 11.5 inch rough-in from the finished wall might be even better, since many toilets leave a 3/4 inch spacing behind the tank.
  16. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,004
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    You would gain an inch to the end of the bowl with a 14" Unifit bowl, and your knees sitting down would gain 2-1/2" with the 14" Unifit.
    Using a Unift adapter to move a bowl 2" would not be a total fix in your situation, but it does something.

    Moving the rough-in at the floor, and heating duct is going to cost someone a lot.

    Last edited: Dec 10, 2013
  17. waldoinc

    waldoinc New Member

    Messages:
    6
    Location:
    Arkansas
    Yes, I was my own GC. My plumber is a good one and a trusted friend and relative, but the HVAC guys were the worst mistake I made in the entire project. It can't be made right, so we just have to deal with it as best we can. If nothing else, it is functional, but we would like to improve its appearance and function.
  18. waldoinc

    waldoinc New Member

    Messages:
    6
    Location:
    Arkansas
    So that would be three and a half inches? That would be a heck of a lot of difference in the accessibility of the toilet for my wife, who is the only one who uses it. And this toilet would be white with a comfort height? And isn't this the only known way (that does not involve demolition) to get that much more clearance from the door?

    Thanks!
    Gene
  19. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,004
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    A total of 2.5" combined saving when sitting down.
  20. Reach4

    Reach4 Active Member

    Messages:
    2,235
    Location:
    IL
    1. If the duct is in a crawl space, couldn't you dig out some dirt and bypass around a moved rough-in? A photo posted in an HVAC forum might point out a practical solution.

    2. Maybe consider installing a shelving unit behind the new toilet on the existing flange to make it look almost like you planned it that way.
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