14" Rough-In Toilet Choices

Discussion in 'Toilet Forum discussions' started by cgskiking, Sep 30, 2009.

  1. cgskiking

    cgskiking New Member

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    sf bay area
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 23, 2009
  2. Gary Swart

    Gary Swart In the Trades

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    Yakima WA
    The Gerber and Kohler are absolutely terrible toilets. The American Standard has quality issues with castings. Sometimes you have to make 3 or 4 returns before you get one that isn't misshaped or otherwise defective. The seem to be OK after that. The Toto Unifit Adaptor works very well and would be my choice. The quality of Toto toilets is unmatched as is their performance.
  3. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

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    I sell a lot of the Toto toilets with the Unifit adapter.
    They would be the better choice.

    You can also get the 14" Unifit and move the bowl back 2"

    The other brands use a 12" bowl.
    The Wellworth has the Ingenium flush rated at 250 grams
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2009
  4. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

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    To expound on what Terry was saying about moving things back...

    With the Toto and the UniFit adapter, the same toilet can fit on 10, 12, or 14" rough-in flanges while maintaining the SAME gap behind the same tank. With the other 14" toilets, they just put a thicker tank on it, and it sticks into the room that extra 2".

    Personally, with two Toto toilets with the UniFit adapter I own in my home, while you can hear a little more, my toilets are much quieter than the ones there before, and except for maybe the first few days, I no longer really hear the trickle.

    Any toilet has the bowl full to overflowing. When you add anything, it overflows down the drain the same amount as what you add. In an all porcelain toilet, that waterway is more insulated, and you don't tend to hear it much (but it's there). With the Unifit, part of that drain path is plastic (the adapter), so you can hear it a little. For me, not a problem. I think the benefits far outweigh the (minor) noise issue some report. It's easier to pull the toilet, too, as the adapter stays in place, and you don't need to reset with a new wax ring (unless you need to remove that, too). This would allow you to quickly and easily remove the toilet to say paint behind it.
  5. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

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    Comparing a 14" Cadet 3 to a Toto 14"

    [​IMG]
    On the left is a TOTO Soiree with a 14" Unifit adapter.
    On the right is a 14" Cadet 3.
    Notice how little room there is with the Cadet 3 in this small Seattle bathroom.
    [​IMG]
    Now we compare the leg room.
    On the left, the TOTO Soiree with 14" Unift adpapter.
    On the right, the Cadet 3
    The TOTO wins the Race for Space.

    Just so you know, we took out the Cadet and replaced it with a Toto.
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2009
  6. moneypitowner

    moneypitowner New Member

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    Location:
    St. Paul, MN
    What are my choices with 13 3/4 rough in?

    I am having someone install a new toilet and I have several limiting factors, I am wondering what the best toilet is for my old house. The outside water pressure is 56 psi, there is a 13 3/4 rough in and, there were two metal prongs sticking out of the wall 29 1/2" from the floor from the old toilet which I would like to cover. What are my choices? Do conversions affect flush performance? I prefer round as the room is small. Additionally, the old tile was very hard to remove and so the tile was installed over the old tile. Will this affect the wax seal on the drain and waste pipe because the toilet sets up higher? The house is colonial so a higher toilet would fit the style. OH YEAH, to make matters worse, the t-bolts were rusted away! What can be done to fix that?!

    Attached Files:

    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 28, 2010
  7. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

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    toilet

    The "prongs" are probably old toilet screws from a toilet which had 4 bolt holes in its base. Break them off flush with the floor or unscrew them from the floor. Water pressure has absolutely NOTHING to do with how a toilet flushes, unless you buy a noisy pressure assisted one. With your dimension you can use ANY toilet you want to, it just depends on how much space you can live with behind the tank whether you use a 14", 12", or 10" one.
  8. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

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    Sometimes a bathroom has a non-standard dimension for the toilet rough-in. Standard is 12"
    Sometimes you will see a toilet roughed in at 14".
    You can always use a standard 12" rough toilet for this, but the bowl sets out from the wall an extra 2"
    You can order thicker tanks from some manufacturers, that hide the fact that the bowl is setting 2" farther out, but the end of the bowl will still be out in the room.

    The only manufacturer that "moves" the bowl back 2". is TOTO.
    A 14" Unifit will pull the bowl back 2" closer to the wall.

    You pay more though for this advantage.
    Models from Toto that allow you to move the bowl back 2" with their Unifit adapter are:
    Vespin
    Carlyle
    Carrollton
    Carolina
    Lloyd
    Pacifica
    Soiree
    Guinevere

    With the Vespin and Carlyle, the shutoff can be 7" to the left of center.
    With the Soiree and the Guinevere, the shutoff can be 5-1/2" to the left of center.

    Most of these are 28" long and set off from the wall 3/4"
    So on a standard 12" rough, the end of the bowl would be 28-3/4"
    If you have a 14" rough, you can switch for a 14" Unifit and keep the distance to 28-3/4"
    The 14" Unifit needs to be ordered in addition to the toilet.
    They come with the standard 12" Unifit, which winds up being an extra part.
    And no. I don't need anymore 12" Unifit adapters.

    So to explain how this works:
    Cadet 3 14" rough "round bowl" is 30-1/4" from the wall.
    Cadet 3 14" rough "elongated bowl" is 32-1/4" from the wall.
    Any of the Toto toilets above will be about 28-3/4" from the wall with the elongated bowl. Shorter then most other round bowls, and much shorter then the other elongated bowls.

    You pay more, but get a better toilet, and more usable space in the bathroom.

    Your call.

    [​IMG]
    10" Unift, 12" Unifit and 14" Unifit adapter
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2013
  9. moneypitowner

    moneypitowner New Member

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    2
    Location:
    St. Paul, MN
    Guinevere performance/will the wax seal be an issue due to tile on tile?

    Thanks for your suggestions. What is the Guinevere like for performance? Best to just come out and ask...Will it handle tampons, and not leave smudge marks? How does the toilet get attached if the bolts are rusted and partially snapped? Any ideas on what to do with the rusty bolts on the right hand wall in the picture. The Guenevere doesn't come up high enough to cover them. Will the wax still seal on the waste pipe if the tile is laid on top of the old tile (toilet will be max. 1/2" higher than it was from waste pipe)?

    [​IMG]
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 15, 2009
  10. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    21,817
    Location:
    New England
    So much for thinking ahead...the flange should have been fixed prior to installing the new tile. But, you do what you have to now. Depending on how much room there is, it may be impossible to get the anchor bolts for the toilet out of that flange since it is now recessed. The bolts fit into slots, and normally, you'd just knock them out towards the outside, then slide some new ones in. Can't do that if the thing is now tiled in. After years of leaks, they tend to rust together and become 'one' with the flange, but they should come out, if you had room at the outside to slide them out after whacking them to the side with a hammer to loosen them up.

    So, you may have to grind off the stubs, if they exist, then put down a repair ring and maybe a flange extension first. The repair ring would give you something that would hold new anchor bolts, the flange extension would bring the flange up to the proper level. You'd want to seal between the existing flange and the extension with some silicon to keep it from leaking. You'll need to drill some holes to anchor all of this, and it may take a diamond bit to do it, depending on the tile.

    I have two toilets in my home that use the unifit adapter and they work fine. It is never a good idea to flush a tampon, especially if you have a septic tank.

    [​IMG]
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 15, 2009
  11. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    14,789
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    [​IMG]
    Toto Vespin II CST474CEFG with SS114 Softclose seat.
    This bowl was installed on a 13-1/2" rough-in using the 14" Unifit adapter.
    The water shutoff can be as close as 5-1/2" to the left of center, unless it's higher off the floor, and then it can be even closer to center.
    This shutoff had been replaced with a new 1/4 turn valve with brass nipple through the wall.
    Installation was by James Love of Love Plumbing & Remodel 206-949-5683
    In some of the older Seattle homes, the old toilets had been wall mounted tank toilets.
    Those typically are 14" rough-in and need a flange repair to use standard closet bolt connections at the flange.
    Everything is on the truck for that.
  12. AnnisDad

    AnnisDad New Member

    Messages:
    3
    Location:
    Seattle
    14-inch rough in for small space?

    We have an 82-year-old house with an old (but probably not original) toilet in the powder room.
    Its parts are shot, so we need to replace it. Unfortunately, the room is tiny.
    We need a round-bowl toilet with a 14-inch rough-in. But all we see are elongated bowls or ultra-modern styles. Or they cost $1,100.
    Yikes.
    Got any suggestions?

    [​IMG]
    Lloyd handle
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 20, 2013
  13. Gary Swart

    Gary Swart In the Trades

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    Location:
    Yakima WA
    See Terry's listing for Toto toilets. There are several that use a Unifit adapter that will fit them to a 14" rough-in. They aren't the cheapest in the Toto line, but they are sure a bunch less the $1100. These are elongated bowls (not sure if any are round) but they actually don't take much if any more space than most other brand of toilets with round bowls. Not only that, but you will have a superior toilet. Terry's prices are very reasonable and even his installation charges are less than most plumbers.
  14. AnnisDad

    AnnisDad New Member

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    3
    Location:
    Seattle
    Thanks, Gary. We were hoping for a Toto -- we've been happy with the performance of our other one (except for the worn-out flapper).
    I've seen the Unifit adapter mentioned, but wouldn't that just put the toilet further away from the wall and take up more space in the room?

    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 20, 2013
  15. Gary Swart

    Gary Swart In the Trades

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    7,308
    Location:
    Yakima WA
    No. The the Unifit adapter allows the toilet to set back just like a toilet on a standard rough-in. Since Terry lives in Bothell, it would be a good idea if you were to call him and discuss your situation with him directly. He can better explain how these adapters work and suggest the best model for you. There is a bit more to the installation of toilets with the Unifit than a standard flange, so you may want to have him do the installation. His phone number is on the home page of this forum.
  16. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

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    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    14" rough toilet in Seattle

    [​IMG]
    Toto Vespin II CST474CEFG with SS114 Softclose seat.
    This bowl was installed on a 13-1/2" rough-in using the 14" Unifit adapter.
    This toilet was installed in Seattle by us.

    The Vespin comes with a standard 12" Unifit, but this was installed with a 14" unifit.
    This allows us to slide the bowl back 2" closer to the wall.
    There are a lot of homes built in Seattle that had 14" rough toilets.
    The tanks were mounted on the wall, and connected to the bowls with chrome plated tube that bent between the two.
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2010
  17. Chris74

    Chris74 New Member

    Messages:
    6
    Location:
    Collingswood NJ
    All,

    I'm in the same boat. I have limited space for depth from the back wall and a 14" rough-in that I can't change.

    I've been laboring over my choices here and found this toilet that I thought I could get some feedback on.

    It's 14" Rough-in
    27" Depth!!
    Round bowl and about $170.

    Sterling
    Windham™ 14" Rough-in Round-Front Toilet with Pro Force® Technology
    Dimensions: 27" x 16-7/8" x 29"

    List price: $165.20 and up

    Product #: 402014

    http://sterlingplumbing.com/onlinecatalog/pdf/1022170_4.pdf

    Any thoughts? The manufacturer site is here: http://sterlingplumbing.com

    Thanks,
    Chris

    Attached Files:

    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 28, 2010
  18. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    14,789
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    Sterling Windham 14" rough

    You are reading the spec sheet wrong for the 14" Windham.

    Round bowl, 29-1/4" plus 1" behind the tank = 30-1/4" from the back wall to end of bowl.

    Elongated bowl, 31-1/4" plus 1" behind the tank = 32-1/4" from the back wall to end of bowl.
    Terry Love

    You may as well get the 12" then, they use a 12" bowl with a thick tank, so the bowl is still a long ways into the room.
    A round bowl Toto Drake round front would stick into the room 29-1/2", the round 14" Windham would stick out 30-1/4".

    An elongated Toto Vespin with 14" Unifit would stick out only 28-3/4" from the back wall.

    The Windham is a builder grade toilet.
    I remove a lot of them from homes.
    Not awful, but there are so many toilets out there that don't plug as often.

    [​IMG]

    On the left, would be an elongated TOTO bowl with 14" Unifit, on the right would be the elongated Sterling Windham 14"
    Notice how much more leg room the TOTO has?
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2011
  19. Chris74

    Chris74 New Member

    Messages:
    6
    Location:
    Collingswood NJ
    I see what you mean. Thanks.

    Take a look here, this is what I'm delaing with, obviously, the shorter the toilet depth, the better. I have trouble shelling out the $400 for the toto to gain an inch and a half.
    [​IMG]
    Thanks!
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 28, 2010
  20. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    21,817
    Location:
    New England
    How much is a toilet that rarely, if ever, gets clogged worth, especially if it is a once in 20-40 year purchase? Any males, and likely females in the household will appreciate an elongated toilet. Toto list prices are just that...few dealers sell them at list, so look around. I have a Vespin and a Carlyle in my home and over the 10-years or so, I don't think I've needed the plunger. Maybe once...
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