What is the Best Water Softener?

[WorldPeace]

I looked this question up on this forum but surprisingly, I didn't find anything. There are a lot of articles online but it's hard to tell which is paid websites. I'm wondering what is the opinion here.

Can people tell me what they consider the best water softener to install?

Thanks.

 

[Reach4]

I looked this question up on this forum but surprisingly, I didn't find anything. There are a lot of articles online but it's hard to tell which is paid websites. I'm wondering what is the opinion here.

Can people tell me what they consider the best water softener to install?

Thanks.

You will install it. Fleck allows dealers to ship you systems and parts.

For 3/4 inch plumbing, Fleck 5600SXT is good IMO. For 1 inch Fleck 5810SXT is good. There are other good ones.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[WorldPeace]

Reach,

Thanks for your response. I've seen this this. It's one of the most popular salt systems. Is there any validity to the claim that salt isn't necessary? There are few non-salt systems. Do they work or is a salt system necessary for an entire home?

There are so many systems and it's hard to figure out which ones are good. I've looked at Amazon reviews but I don't trust them anymore because the system is now broken. There are just too many paid reviews. A few years ago, a study came out that stated 15% were paid. However, I think the percentage is a lot more now.

 

[Reach4]

Is there any validity to the claim that salt isn't necessary?

Not in my opinion. Not if you want economically softened water. A whole house RO system without a softener could give soft water at great expense.

 

[Treeman]

I will give a go at this from the perspective of a softener layperson, sometimes proficient handy person. I sized and installed a quality softener about 3 years ago after spending months here educating myself. These are strictly my subjective opinions.

- I have the impression that name brands like Culligan and Kinetico tend to be over priced and may contain proprietary parts that will further cost you more money if maintenance is needed.

- To me, it seems that cabinet models are less desirable than the two tank system (resin tank/brine tank). Who wants the valve controls inside the brine tank with the salt fumes and humidity? Pros, am I wrong?

- Box store units often seem to be dumbed down versions. I recently looked at a Pentairre model sold at Blaines Farm & Fleet and it had a dumbed down Autotrol valve and only 0.8 cu. ft. of resin.

- Excellent units are made up of somewhat generic components: controller/valve, tanks, resin, etc.. The pros here ascertain that internet models might have cheaper tanks and components compared to models purchased at a professional jobber supply house.

- The 3 U.S. made quality valves are Fleck, Clack, and Autotrol. These are component brands, not softener brands. Unfortunately, I "think" it is now difficult for consumers to buy softeners with these valves - they need to be sourced through a professional plumbing supply (Need verification of this).

Best brand? I believe you need to rethink this. Shop for a softener with best components. It likely will not have a brand name that you recognize. I.E., my local jobber sells Charger brand softeners that you can buy with either Fleck, Clack, or Autotrol valves. I don't have knowledge of their other component quality, but my first one lasted 18 years and I'm now 3 years trouble free on my second one.

 

[Water Pro]

You will install it. Fleck allows dealers to ship you systems and parts.

For 3/4 inch plumbing, Fleck 5600SXT is good IMO. For 1 inch Fleck 5810SXT is good. There are other good ones.

it's subjective. there really isn't a "best". fleck are good, so are clack, master water makes good units as well. there are many factors which determine what model (among the manufacturers) best suits your requirements. Other factors to consider are ease of repair and whether or not you want to install yourself or pay a dealer to install, as some models are only available through a dealer.

 

[Water Pro]

I will give a go at this from the perspective of a softener layperson, sometimes proficient handy person. I sized and installed a quality softener about 3 years ago after spending months here educating myself. These are strictly my subjective opinions.

- I have the impression that name brands like Culligan and Kinetico tend to be over priced and may contain proprietary parts that will further cost you more money if maintenance is needed.

- To me, it seems that cabinet models are less desirable than the two tank system (resin tank/brine tank). Who wants the valve controls inside the brine tank with the salt fumes and humidity? Pros, am I wrong?

- Box store units often seem to be dumbed down versions. I recently looked at a Pentairre model sold at Blaines Farm & Fleet and it had a dumbed down Autotrol valve and only 0.8 cu. ft. of resin.

- Excellent units are made up of somewhat generic components: controller/valve, tanks, resin, etc.. The pros here ascertain that internet models might have cheaper tanks and components compared to models purchased at a professional jobber supply house.

- The 3 U.S. made quality valves are Fleck, Clack, and Autotrol. These are component brands, not softener brands. Unfortunately, I "think" it is now difficult for consumers to buy softeners with these valves - they need to be sourced through a professional plumbing supply (Need verification of this).

Best brand? I believe you need to rethink this. Shop for a softener with best components. It likely will not have a brand name that you recognize. I.E., my local jobber sells Charger brand softeners that you can buy with either Fleck, Clack, or Autotrol valves. I don't have knowledge of their other component quality, but my first one lasted 18 years and I'm now on 3 years trouble free on my second one.

^This is accurate. a lot of the off-brands (although they may use good valves) often find cheaper component (such as tanks, resin, floats, risers, etc) to lower the overall cost of producing the unit. This then allows them to sell it as a discounted price. A good local treatment professional (that sells non-proprietary products), while sometimes slightly more costly, is often a better bet, as they have the knowledge and resources to provide the proper treatment method, as well as, to provide the best overall components

 

[Bannerman]

A good local treatment professional (that sells non-proprietary products), while sometimes slightly more costly, is often a better bet, as they have the knowledge and resources to provide the proper treatment method, as well as, to provide the best overall components

Many online dealers possess little knowedge or understanding about the equipment they sell as too many only process a customer's order on a check-off sheet which will be sent to a 3rd party assembler who will drop ship the assembled equipment directly to the customer. An online dealer will often actually never see the equipment they are selling.

When the customer experiences a problem, many online dealers will have no experience or understanding to diagnose or assist to correct an issue but will often refer their customer to Fleck or Clack to obtain assistance, even as the cause of the issue is usually not a Fleck or Clack issue but is due to a failure of a low quality component that was $2.00 cheaper than a better quality and more reliable version.

Because local dealers install and service the equipment they sell, they will be less likely to utilize low quality or less reliable components as failure of a cheap component will too often result in callbacks and warranty repairs they may be unlikely to be paid to perform.

 

[Water Pro]

Many online dealers possess little knowedge or understanding about the equipment they sell as too many only process a customer's order on a check-off sheet which will be sent to a 3rd party assembler who will drop ship the assembled equipment directly to the customer. An online dealer will often actually never see the equipment they are selling.

When the customer experiences a problem, many online dealers will have no experience or understanding to diagnose or assist to correct an issue but will often refer their customer to Fleck or Clack to obtain assistance, even as the cause of the issue is usually not a Fleck or Clack issue but is due to a failure of a low quality component that was $2.00 cheaper than a better quality and more reliable version.

Because local dealers install and service the equipment they sell, they will be less likely to utilize low quality or less reliable components as failure of a cheap component will too often result in callbacks and warranty repairs they may be unlikely to be paid to perform.

Very accurate assessment.

 

[kk0710]

You will install it. Fleck allows dealers to ship you systems and parts.

For 3/4 inch plumbing, Fleck 5600SXT is good IMO. For 1 inch Fleck 5810SXT is good. There are other good ones.

Why does plumbing size matter for which controller you pick?

 

[Reach4]

Fleck 5600SXT is only good for about 7 gpm or so. That is enough for most houses, but not for filling two tubs simultaneously.

 

[JediMindShit]

Fleck 5600SXT is only good for about 7 gpm or so. That is enough for most houses, but not for filling two tubs simultaneously.

Isn't the GPM dependent on the tank's capability? Or is teh Fleck model also limit the GPM possible? (ie. 12"x52" water softener tank can handle 14GPM). Reason I ask is my home's GPM coming in is 13 GPM. PSI is 113. So I am about to buy a water softener, and calculated that the 32000 grain 9"x48" is sufficient based on the calculations of hardness, etc of water report. BUT the customer service guy said that tank size can only do 6GPM, which would drastically impact my water pressure inside the home. He said I should purchase the 64,000 grain 12"x52" tank (Fleck 5600/5800 STX) which can handle 14GPM. Seems a bit overkill to me, but it makes sense. Maybe you can clarify for me?

 

[Bannerman]

The 5600 series, can only support 7 GPM drain flow, which will also equal the maximum Backwash flow rate. For this reason, Fleck recommends the 5600 for Softeners equipped with 12" or smaller media tanks, or Filters equipped with 10" or smaller tanks. Since there is a wide range of filter medias, each requiring a unique backwash rate, it's always best to verify the backwash requirements necessary for the intended media, before choosing the control valve.

Reason I ask is my home's GPM coming in is 13 GPM. PSI is 113.

Assuming your water source is municipal, then you need a pressure regulator installed at point of entry. Residential plumbing should not be regularly exposed to pressures exceeding 80 psi. Most municipal water supply systems are designed to provide 60 psi.

Although your home's plumbing system maybe capable of delivering 13 GPM, most actual water use is typically 6 GPM or less.

Isn't the GPM dependent on the tank's capability?

Yes, but not in the manner you think.

Water treatment is rarely an immediate process, but requires sufficient contact time with sufficient media for optimal treatment performance to take place. To increase the media contact time will require either a larger volume of media, or a lower flow rate through the media, or both.

Media manufacturer's typically publish the effective Service Flow Rate for each media, stated as GPM per square foot of cross section (ft2). Also usually stated will be the media bed depth to achieve optimal performance to achieve the SFR specified.

For example, a softener equipped with 1 ft3 resin within a 9" diameter tank, will have ~32" bed depth to support 6 GPM Service Flow Rate across 0.4415625 ft2 of tank cross section.

Depending on the control valve utilized, the valve may support a Peak Flow rate of 12 GPM, but when the media SFR is exceeded, then hardness will be more likely to leak through the resin, so softened water supplied to fixtures will be less soft and lower in quality than when the flow rate is 6 GPM or less.

Increasing the tank diameter will increase the cross sectional area of media which will allow an increased service flow rate to fixtures, but a larger quantity of media will then be necessary to provide the required bed depth. Of course, a larger quantity of resin will also increase the total Capacity of hardness that maybe removed before regeneration will be necessary.

I am about to buy a water softener, and calculated that the 32000 grain 9"x48" is sufficient based on the calculations of hardness, etc of water report.

I suspect you are basing usage on all 32K grains of resin capacity. If so, this will result in extremely inefficient and wasteful performance.

To regenerate 32K grains capacity in 1 ft3 resin, will require 20 lbs salt each regen cycle. Efficiency will then equal 32,000 gr/ 20 lbs = 1,600 gr per lb.

To achieve significantly higher efficiency and performance, always recommended to obtain a larger capacity softener, but program less capacity to be consumed before regeneration takes place using a lower salt quantity.

For example, a 10" softener containing 1.5 ft3 resin, will have a total hardness reduction capacity of 48K grains, but will require only 12 lbs salt to provide 36K grains of usable capacity each cycle. (36,000 / 12 lbs = 3,000 gr/lb)

A 12" softener equipped with 2 ft3 resin (64K gr total capacity), will require 16 lbs salt to regenerate 48K grains of usable capacity to provide the same 3,000 gr/lb efficiency.

 

[Reach4]

Why does plumbing size matter for which controller you pick?

Also note that the Fleck 5810SXT has been discontinued due to a high failure rate. The 5800SXT has more capacity than the 5600SXT, and is about the same price.

 

[Silversaver]

The 5600 series, can only support 7 GPM drain flow, which will also equal the maximum Backwash flow rate. For this reason, Fleck recommends the 5600 for Softeners equipped with 12" or smaller media tanks, or Filters equipped with 10" or smaller tanks. Since there is a wide range of filter medias, each requiring a unique backwash rate, it's always best to verify the backwash requirements necessary for the intended media, before choosing the control valve.


Assuming your water source is municipal, then you need a pressure regulator installed at point of entry. Residential plumbing should not be regularly exposed to pressures exceeding 80 psi. Most municipal water supply systems are designed to provide 60 psi.

Although your home's plumbing system maybe capable of delivering 13 GPM, most actual water use is typically 6 GPM or less.


Yes, but not in the manner you think.

Water treatment is rarely an immediate process, but requires sufficient contact time with sufficient media for optimal treatment performance to take place. To increase the media contact time will require either a larger volume of media, or a lower flow rate through the media, or both.

Media manufacturer's typically publish the effective Service Flow Rate for each media, stated as GPM per square foot of cross section (ft2). Also usually stated will be the media bed depth to achieve optimal performance to achieve the SFR specified.

For example, a softener equipped with 1 ft3 resin within a 9" diameter tank, will have ~32" bed depth to support 6 GPM Service Flow Rate across 0.4415625 ft2 of tank cross section.

Depending on the control valve utilized, the valve may support a Peak Flow rate of 12 GPM, but when the media SFR is exceeded, then hardness will be more likely to leak through the resin, so softened water supplied to fixtures will be less soft and lower in quality than when the flow rate is 6 GPM or less.

Increasing the tank diameter will increase the cross sectional area of media which will allow an increased service flow rate to fixtures, but a larger quantity of media will then be necessary to provide the required bed depth. Of course, a larger quantity of resin will also increase the total Capacity of hardness that maybe removed before regeneration will be necessary.


I suspect you are basing usage on all 32K grains of resin capacity. If so, this will result in extremely inefficient and wasteful performance.

To regenerate 32K grains capacity in 1 ft3 resin, will require 20 lbs salt each regen cycle. Efficiency will then equal 32,000 gr/ 20 lbs = 1,600 gr per lb.

To achieve significantly higher efficiency and performance, always recommended to obtain a larger capacity softener, but program less capacity to be consumed before regeneration takes place using a lower salt quantity.

For example, a 10" softener containing 1.5 ft3 resin, will have a total hardness reduction capacity of 48K grains, but will require only 12 lbs salt to provide 36K grains of usable capacity each cycle. (36,000 / 12 lbs = 3,000 gr/lb)

A 12" softener equipped with 2 ft3 resin (64K gr total capacity), will require 16 lbs salt to regenerate 48K grains of usable capacity to provide the same 3,000 gr/lb efficiency.

I am settle for a new Clark WS1.25 valve this time with same 2.0 ft3 capacity to replace the old Fleck 7000 2.0 ft3 system. I do know my setting on the Fleck 7000 valve, but the Clark WS1.25 is something new to me. I am reading the user manual as now. The system will be install this Friday. Now, the question is the capacity. Do I program Clark WS valve as a 48k unit or leave it at 64k? I understand the salt setting 16lbs might be ideal, but if I prefer the "smooth" of water, can I up a few more lbs of salt?

Thanks,

 

[Bannerman]

I understand the salt setting 16lbs might be ideal, but if I prefer the "smooth" of water, can I up a few more lbs of salt?

Water treatment often requires compromise. Greater salt efficiency will result in lower quality soft water due to higher hardness leakage through the resin bed, and the resulting lower Capacity setting will cause a greater amount of water to be utilized for regeneration when considered over each year of operation.

8 lbs salt per cubic foot of resin (16 lbs for a 2ft3 system) to regenerate 48K useable grains capacity, will offer the best balance of salt efficiency, water quality (low hardness leakage), and useable capacity.

Compare hardness leakage for each salt setting by reviewing the chart below. The usual recommended 8 lbs salt per ft3, hardness leakage will eventually rise to only 6ppm, which continues to equal great quality soft water. FYI, 17.1 ppm hardness = 1 grain per gallon.

While higher salt settings are often utilized to reduce any amount of scaling in critical applications such as steam boiler feeds or industrial processes, a low level of hardness leakage is not critical nor usually recognizable in residential applications. In some locations, local requirements often require far lower salt settings (greater salt efficiency) to reduce the quantity of sodium in the effluent discharged to drain.

 

[Silversaver]

Noted. Thank you for spending the time to explain. Now, I have a better understanding on the setting and the reason behind it.

 

[Eric Wesson]

Water treatment often requires compromise. Greater salt efficiency will result in lower quality soft water due to higher hardness leakage through the resin bed, and the resulting lower Capacity setting will cause a greater amount of water to be utilized for regeneration when considered over each year of operation.

...

While higher salt settings are often utilized to reduce any amount of scaling in critical applications such as steam boiler feeds or industrial processes, a low level of hardness leakage is not critical nor usually recognizable in residential applications. In some locations, local requirements often require far lower salt settings (greater salt efficiency) to reduce the quantity of sodium in the effluent discharged to drain.

Outstanding comments and chart. Salt efficiency is little understood. This is not helped by the common installer practice of setting the softener to maximum grains capacity so the customer "gets his money's worth" and enjoys truly soft water. However, the homeowner pays for it in bags of salt lugged from the store.

Granted, it's just me, but my 1 cf upflow regen softener on 11 gpg water uses a little over a bag per year of salt. It's amazing what efficiency can be.

 

[Silversaver]

I understand the upflow system is more efficient on salt consumption. Wondering how that is achieve.

 

[WellDigger]

Anyone Frankenstein one together and have a parts list?