Well pump problems, possible leak.

[Stephen Smith]

Hi guys, you all did such a wonderful job helping me out last year, that I'm here again.

Here is what I am thinking. I have a leak in the well.

Now let me explain what has happened , and the small tests I have ran.

Water went completly out, when I was doing a load of laundry. So I checked the breaker, and on the way, I noticed the garden hose outside was flast. Like a steam roller went over it. Now a few days prior, I had noticed that the water from the hose (connected directly to the pressure tank.) was really hot.

We have had problems with the hot water tank in the house, so I figured maybe it was water backing up into the system. I now know I was wrong.

So Turn off everything, run to my old preachers house, and fill water jugs. Brother in Law was in the hospital yesterday, so I can't pull it till tomorrow. But I just now, left the water turned off to the house. Turned on the pump, and boom, we had water. Still hot (I'm thinking pump is in full run all the time now.)

So thinking leak, I run inside, turn on the water and a faucet, and it just sucked air like no one could believe.

Stepped outside, hose flat again, and no water at all.

Turned off the water inside, still no water. Turned off pump, came in, and decided to share my woes with people more knowledgable than I.

So, Am I correct in thinking, Pull line in well, look for leak, repair, and hope the pump is still ok ? (It should be, Once I discover any problems, I shut the system down.)

Or do I look for a leak in the house itself? I have not seen any pooled water either inside or under the house, which is why I'm thinking the well.

Many thanks ahead of time guys, and I am not afraid of being wrong in my guessing here. I've been married for 26 years, so I'm wrong all the time.

 

[Reach4]

For those reading, Stephen has a cheap 1 HP 115 volt 2-wire Hallmark submersible pump.

Stephen, you should have a 0-100 psi pressure gauge to judge pressures.

When the pump is pumping, what is the current through the hot wire? Is the current zero when the pump stops pumping?

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Stephen Smith]

I will have to check the current out for you in the morning Reach4, But I did notice the pressure gauge showing about 90-100 PSI. I can hear the pump turning on and off, if that helps, But my hearing isn't what it used to be. So I can not tell if the leak is in the well or not, by sound.

First thing in the morning, I'll check, and get back to you.

 

[Michael Young]

Hi guys, you all did such a wonderful job helping me out last year, that I'm here again.

Here is what I am thinking. I have a leak in the well.

Now let me explain what has happened , and the small tests I have ran.

Water went completly out, when I was doing a load of laundry. So I checked the breaker, and on the way, I noticed the garden hose outside was flast. Like a steam roller went over it. Now a few days prior, I had noticed that the water from the hose (connected directly to the pressure tank.) was really hot.

We have had problems with the hot water tank in the house, so I figured maybe it was water backing up into the system. I now know I was wrong.

So Turn off everything, run to my old preachers house, and fill water jugs. Brother in Law was in the hospital yesterday, so I can't pull it till tomorrow. But I just now, left the water turned off to the house. Turned on the pump, and boom, we had water. Still hot (I'm thinking pump is in full run all the time now.)

So thinking leak, I run inside, turn on the water and a faucet, and it just sucked air like no one could believe.

Stepped outside, hose flat again, and no water at all.

Turned off the water inside, still no water. Turned off pump, came in, and decided to share my woes with people more knowledgable than I.

So, Am I correct in thinking, Pull line in well, look for leak, repair, and hope the pump is still ok ? (It should be, Once I discover any problems, I shut the system down.)

Or do I look for a leak in the house itself? I have not seen any pooled water either inside or under the house, which is why I'm thinking the well.

Many thanks ahead of time guys, and I am not afraid of being wrong in my guessing here. I've been married for 26 years, so I'm wrong all the time.

ok. so you have pressure. if you have pressure then yes, your pump is still pumping.
turn off the water on the house side of your pressure tank
use a non-metallic object to push together the contactor on your pressure switch
manually fill up your pressure tank to approx. 100psi
now just WATCH CAREFULLY
if you lose pressure, you know you are losing pressure on the pump side, not the house side

If you're losing pressure on the pump side, you're more likely to have a failed check valve, which is built into your pump.

so if you lose pressure on the pump side - pull the pump
replace the pump
drop your pump into a large BRAND NEW CLEAN trash can
fire the pump off. if you have leaks you'll see them.
if no leaks, drop that pump back down the hole

ALWAYS check your shit before you drop it back down the well. I like to use a food grade 55 gallon drum. I'm a lazy "Gosh darn golly" and I don't want to have to pull that freakin’ pump twice. I always test before I drop 'em.

 

[Stephen Smith]

Thank you so much! I will do so in the morning as well.

Now may I ask, Can I simply add an inline check valve near the pump, or do I have to just replace the whole thing? I only ask, as I'm on a budget in the summer. Next month LOL, it would not been a problem at all. (I work for Jones Public Schools, and Summer is horrible wage wise.)

IF not, I will do what I can. I might have just enough credit left to purchace a new one.

 

[Reach4]

Now may I ask, Can I simply add an inline check valve near the pump, or do I have to just replace the whole thing?

Inline checkvalve added to the top of a submersible pump is perfectly acceptable and adds redundancy.

I did not analyze the symptoms too well.

I would usually think that the pressure switch would turn off power to the pump before the gauge ever got to 90 psi. Bad gauge, or bad pressure switch, or a clogged nipple?

 

[Stephen Smith]

Ahh, that very well could be the problem as well. I know the pressure switch I've had, well, ok, bought a new one, it didn't work. (wrong size for the tank or something, been awhile back.) So I put the old one back on, and it did work.

So it is possible that it is finally wearing out. The nipple is also possible, we have a lot of calcium build up here in Central OK.

 

[Michael Young]

Inline checkvalve added to the top of a submersible pump is perfectly acceptable and adds redundancy.

I did not analyze the symptoms too well.

I would usually think that the pressure switch would turn off power to the pump before the gauge ever got to 90 psi. Bad gauge, or bad pressure switch, or a clogged nipple?

if it ran constantly the pressure would continuously go up and up and the pressure tank would likely rupture.

 

[Stephen Smith]

Hmm.I wonder if that also ties into me hearing a lot of air when the pump is turned off. Rushing out of the tank I believe. ( I had rechecked it this after noon. At first I thought it was sucking air in. But it is blowing out.)

 

[Valveman]

Air in the lines, hot water from the cold water tap, you have a hole in the drop pipe. My guess is the Hallmark pump can just barely build enough pressure to shut off, or maybe not, and the water gets hot. Probably melted the plastic pipe and caused a split or leak. Make sure the pump you have can build at least 10 PSI more than your pressure switch shut off point from whatever depth the water is in the well. The 1HP Hallmark only builds 207' total. Needing 161' of head to have 10 PSI more than the off setting of a 40/60 switch, that means if your water level is deeper than 45' the pump will get hot and melt down.

 

[Stephen Smith]

Ok I really read the pump wrong then when I got it. My well is about 160' deep, so I thought 207 ' build would be plenty. So I need to go to a larger pump, which means I'll have to go to 220 line or something. I tried switching the pump switch this morning, with another one I had laying around, and it worked for a few seconds at most. So yeah, I think you all right, hole in the line, possibly melted pipe.

 

[Valveman]

A 1HP would still be good at that depth but you need a 10 GPM pump end on that motor instead of a 33 GPM pump end.

 

[Stephen Smith]

Ahh thank you sir. That makes sense now.

I tell ya, you all don't know how much I appreciate this help.

 

[Stephen Smith]

Ok, I'm gonna have to let it go until Friday, when I get paid again, to grab a new pump.

So here Is what I have ordered, Got a new pump switch, heard along time ago, to just replace them everytime. need to start doing that.

New Checkvalve.

That is on the way. I won't know about the line, until I pull it. I am going to fully rebuild the whole top of it. I've had to take it apart, and put it back together, the thing is held with tape, glue, and the Grace of God. Should have done that sooner, but I get so mentaly exhausted trying to figure out problems with the pump that I don't even want to miss with the well head. LOL.

Oh , and on the meter, turned on power, and was getting 110 to 111 on the meter reader.

 

[Valveman]

If you turn the pressure switch down to 20/40 that pump will work with a water level down to about 100'. Just loosen the large adjustment screw in the pressure switch, and don't mess with the small screw, to get it down to 20/40. Also need to let all but 18 PSI air out of the tank.

 

[Stephen Smith]

Thank you so much for that. I've wondered about the adjustments on the pump switch for a long time now, but wasn't sure exactly which way to go, or which screw to use. I will let the air out of the tank as well.

Now let me ask this please. Before I did any testing this morning, I lifted up on the well head, and man, That pipe felt , like it was still full of water. Maybe not, It could just be me getting older, and maybe a bit weaker. But I'll double check this weekend.

But if it is in fact, full of water, wouldn't this mean the leak isn't down there? I mean of course, the plastic could stil be damaged from the pump and all, but would the water pressure then equalize up into the line? I'm thinking it might also be a leak higher up, and that is why it felt like water in the line as well.

Just throwing stuff out there. I'll find out this weekend, when I just pull the whole thing.

Thanks again Valveman.

I swear, I'm gonna go out, grab a front end loader, and buy a dozen gazzilion gallon tanks to bury, and throw them in line to the house. LOL. Fill them up, and not worry for a day or two . LOL.

 

[Stephen Smith]

OK, went out and fiddled with the pump switch, and was able to get the water hose, which is before the tank, flowing, not quite constantly, but enough to fill two 5 gallon jugs, and the dogs swimming pool.

Water remained cold.

Turned the water on to the house, and bam, air sucked in again, but this time I heard it rush into the well, so def. gonna pull the hose this weekend, in addition to the pumpswitch air pressure tricks I recieved.

 

[Reach4]

Turned the water on to the house, and bam, air sucked in again, but this time I heard it rush into the well, so def. gonna pull the hose this weekend, in addition to the pumpswitch air pressure tricks I recieved.

Turning the nut on the big spring 3.5 turns CCW should lower the pressure about 10 psi, such as from 30/50 to 20/40. You still need to attend to your leak.

 

[Stephen Smith]

Yes Sir Reach4. Again, many thanks. I know I have a new pump switch comeing tomorrow, along with another valve. So If it get'shere in the AM, I'll pull it tomorrow, and fix the leak. If not It will be Saturday.

hehe, I still owe you a steak dinner or a beer, or whatever, if you find yourself in Central OK.

 

[SondraHenfling]

hm, I did not understand that one