Well producing sediment and reddish water

[LennyS]

Hello folks, new member here. Very informative site and much appreciated. I have a question that I bet someone here could help me out with. I had a new well drilled in Oct of 2017. The well driller only drilled the well and a friend of mine welded on the pitless adapter and everything else. The well is a 280 drilled well. Static water level is at 24 ft. The well is drilled in besalt rock and we hit rock at 3 ft. During the drilling, at 100 ft, we were getting 1/2 gpm, same at 200’ and no changes at 280’. We figured it was a low producing well and would make it work. We did pump the well out many times to clean out the bore hole and even ran water down through the cap to clean the walls of the bore hole. There is a 6” steel casing pounded into the rock down to 25’ pr code. Ever since the first day of use we have seen moderate to heavy silt in our water. Not sure if silt is the proper word but it’s the same color as the drilling’s of the well and I really believe its rock from the borehole. Anyways, I had a big blue 1 micron filter installed to catch the debris and it works great but I have not been able to get rid of the red water totally. Some days it’s bad bad and some days it’s just tinted, but it’s never clear. In the morning when the well is full I can go the basement and open a valve on the pressure tank and run some water into a bucket and find lots of the sediment in the bucket. My theory is that because I can find this sediment in the water in the morning and at any point where the water level may be in the well, I suspect the pump is too close to the bottom. The pump is at about 270’. Another note, very recently the water turned to total crap, virtually unusable even with the filter because it was very red and collects on everything. My well buddy told me to check the wells production and now the well is producing over 4 gpm. I’ve run thousands of gallons through this well but it’s never totally cleared up in the 4 months of its use. I did learn that a well has to be developed and basically I’m doing that while using it so I expect it to be a process that could be a lengthy. Although, since I’m getting the extreme sediment, I still suspect the pump it too low in the buttom. Sorry for the lengthy post but I figure more info is better than less. Tonight, a production test revealed the well is now producing closer to 4.5 gpm. I really believe that since my static water level is only 24 ft that I could easily raise the pump up another 20 ft and have plenty of water. Any info would be greatly appreciated.

-Lenny

 

[Reach4]

I agree that raising the pump by 20 ft may improve things. I think putting a pump initially at about 20 ft from the bottom is common. Putting a flow inducer/shroud over the pump could improve things if the material is falling from above, and would definitely help the pump cooling. Search this forum for "flow inducer"

Anyways, I had a big blue 1 micron filter installed to catch the debris and it works great but I have not been able to get rid of the red water totally.

How often do you change that cartridge? Which element do you use? Do you collect much bigger stuff in your filter?

Depending on the material, there are filters that could take out the bigger stuff before your cartridge filter. I notice that you did not mention a taste problem. Is that because you drink bottled water, or is it the case that you don't taste iron in the water?

If you put the red water into a glass jar, how long does it take for the red to settle out, if it does at all?

I am picturing the red stuff washing out of strata, and in the process letting water flow more readily into your well. Maybe with the pump at the level it is at, you could try flowing water to the ground at a high enough rate to where the pump keeps running, without cycling, for hours or days. Cut off the pump if it runs out of water. You would need to monitor that yourself full time, or you would need a device that senses the loss of water and shuts down the pump. Those devices see the change in current, and can detect the loss of water. https://cyclestopvalves.com/collections/cycle-sensor-pump-monitors/products/cs1ph1-2hp230v is one such device.

I am not a pro.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Valveman]

It is hard to develop a well while using it. The pressure needed in the house holds the pump back and doesn't let it pump max flow. I would run a wide open pipe from the well and pump as many GPMs as the pump can produce. When it pumps the well dry, let it sit for maybe an hour and do it all over again. A low producing well doesn't make enough water to clean up the well quickly, so you just have to keep this up, sometimes for days.

I have a low producer that takes days to pump out, even just for chlorinating. I set up my Cycle Sensor to shut the pump off when the well is dry, wait 60 minutes and turns on the pump again. Sometimes takes 3-4 days of this just to get the chlorine smell out.

 

[LennyS]

I did have the water tested immediately and remarkably the water guy told me the water is very good, naturally soft and no treatment necessary. The day it was tested it hardly had any color. No taste to the water except that it reminds me of treated water because it’s soft, that may be in my head but sure feels soft in the shower and drinking it. I love the water when it’s almost clear but it just doesn’t fully clear up. This morning it’s very red again after pumping it dry last night. Typically it would improved after pumping it down and than after a few days the color slowly creeps back. If I fill up a water bottle when it’s red, it will settle out but takes 3-4 days.

I think I will try what valveman suggested, to pump it down, let it sit for an hr and repeat over and over. I’ll keep you guys posted, and sincerely, thank you guys for all the advice.

-Lenny

 

[Reach4]

Nice weather for that today.

 

[LennyS]

I did have the water tested immediately and remarkably the water guy told me the water is very good, naturally soft and no treatment necessary. The day it was tested it hardly had any color. No taste to the water except that it reminds me of treated water because it’s soft, that may be in my head but sure feels soft in the shower and drinking it. I love the water when it’s almost clear but it just doesn’t fully clear up. This morning it’s very red again after pumping it dry last night. Typically it would improved after pumping it down and than after a few days the color slowly creeps back. If I fill up a water bottle when it’s red, it will settle out but takes 3-4 days.

I think I will try what valveman suggested, to pump it down, let it sit for an hr and repeat over and over. I’ll keep you guys posted, and sincerely, thank you guys for all the advice.

-Lenny

I hear ya, calling for almost a ft of snow today!

 

[Reach4]

I hear ya, calling for almost a ft of snow today!

Maybe you are in a different part of MI from what I was picturing.

http://www.weather.gov/grr/ is what I was picturing, and maybe http://www.weather.gov/mqt/ covers your area.

Anyway, don't put all of that water into your septic tank.

 

[LennyS]

I’m in the UP of Mi. I have a floor drain that dumps down a hill side.

 

[Reach4]

I’m in the UP of Mi. I have a floor drain that dumps down a hill side.

To get the flow that Valveman suggested, you want to let the pressure be very low. If you want to stay indoors, run as many hoses to that drain as you can. So the drain valve at the pressure tank would be one. But you might want to also open one or more outside spigots if conditions support that.

 

[LennyS]

I tried the low volume pumping and it helped none whatsoever. It only seems to improve when I dump the well empty. From my observations, It appears that new water is making it’s way into the borehole maybe through new points or perhaps original entry spots opening up larger. Regardless, water production is increasing tremendously and with that comes much debris. Usually the worst water during a pump down is the last few minutes 20-40 gallons where it’s yuk water. It seems to reason that at some point it should clean itself up. I’m hoping the natural flow of water entering will remove the debris and ultimately clear up. The well driller said it appeared to be solid rock after 3’ I do have large outctopings of rock in the back of my lot, actually a 80’ hill all rock.

 

[Boycedrilling]

You definitely need to install a Cycle Sensor on your pump to shut it down when it runs out of water.

 

[LennyS]

Without a flow sleeve, you have a top feeding well that is not moving water flow across the motor.

Not sure what this means exactly. Could you please elaborate a bit more so I fully understand, thanks!

 

[LennyS]

Update, my Wisconsin well drilling buddy just called and told me to run the well dry, wait 20 minutes, throttle the garden hose down to 3-3.5 gallons pr minute since my well is producing 4 gallons pr min and run it for a day. I’m gonna try it. I have a baby monitor at the garden hose so when I’m upstairs I’ll hear if I over run the pump and run dry. Gotta be worth a try.

 

[Valveman]

Yeah that will work until you turn the pump off. Then when the water level rises it will wash more dirt off the upper area and you will have to start all over again. Not saying that is not worth a try and it will probably help. Just think you are also going to have to wash the upper well also. If the well would make 8-10 GPM you could probably clean it up that way. Low producing wells usually have to be surged.

A flow inducer sleeve or shroud is just a piece of 4" pipe slipped over the motor and part of the pump. It makes the water goes past the motor, which is at the bottom, before the water enter the pump inlet in the middle. That way water is going past the motor even when you are pumping off the 200' of water that is coming down to the pump from above.

 

[LennyS]

PumpMD, valveman: I did read the link pumpMD provided and I still am uncertain what it means or how the flow inducer changes things. When my friend supplied he pump I looked at it. He told me the motor was at the bottom on the unit and I could see the screen inlet. If we sleeved the bottom portion of the pump, would it still just draw from the center just like if the sleeve wasn’t there?

 

[LennyS]

I GET IT NOW!!!!!!! Duhhhhh

This is so the sediment will fall past the inlet and not just get sucked in as water flows by. Or is it for cooling the motor only? I looked up a YouTube video and saw what they did. It appears that the shroud covers the inlet so it has to draw at the bottom only, correct?

 

[Valveman]

I GET IT NOW!!!!!!! Duhhhhh

This is so the sediment will fall past the inlet and not just get sucked in as water flows by. Or is it for cooling the motor only?

If you cut the shroud off flush with the bottom of the motor, there is only a 1/4" gap between the pump and shroud to draw water through. At 10 GPM flow the water will be moving really fast past the motor, which is good to cool the motor, but will suck sand up easily as well.

Now if you extend the 4" shroud 2-3 feet below the motor, the 10 GPM flow in this 4" pipe will be so slow that heavy sand will not get in the pump, but will settle to the bottom of the well.

 

[Reach4]

This is so the sediment will fall past the inlet and not just get sucked in as water flows by. Or is it for cooling the motor only?

It does both, and either is a good reason.

 

[LennyS]

There is a 6” steel casing pounded into the rock down to 25’ pr code.

Is that just your surface casing or does the 6" steel casing go to your Total Depth of the well? Your Well Log from the well driller would provide this important information

The steel casing is only the first 25 ft to prevent ground water contamination.

 

[LennyS]

If your not having the water in your well flowing past the motor, it will overheat to cause premature submersible pump failure.

I want to know at what depth is your water coming into your well? I think it's at the 100' mark and your submersible pump is set way below that point.

I have no clue to know where the water is coming in from except that we had .5 gallons at 100’ and the production never changed according to the drillers so maybe that suggests it within the first 100’.