Water running, float is all the way up, flapper sealing perfect!

Discussion in 'Toilet Forum discussions' started by myz8a4re, Aug 19, 2015.

  1. myz8a4re

    myz8a4re New Member

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    Hey folks, Im a newb here. I have repaired or replaced my toilets myself over the years. Toilets, flaps, fill valves, floats, seals, chains, handles etc... Im pretty sure the fill valve has just failed and I should get another but Im wondering what makes them fail? Yes my float is adjusted properly and yes I did a die test to check the flapper sealing, I can even pull up on the float and the water wont stop totally. So again, Im sure the valve just failed..BUT... Is there something I can check/repair? I know these valves are relatively cheap but I just replaced this one in March and instead of just grabbing another at the store I thought Id ask whats involved and what makes them go bad to where they wont stop the water from running into them. Im guessing I can either keep purchasing the cheap toilet parts or upgrade to something a bit more costly/reliable. I really appreciate any input!

    EDIT: just to note, I do not have any worthwhile or higher end parts in my toilets, just the usual Wal-Mart replacement pieces off the shelf. Just incase someone was curious if I had any rebuildable pieces.
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2015
  2. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

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    What makes you think your fill valve failed? Is the water running over the overflow all of the time, or what?
     
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  4. myz8a4re

    myz8a4re New Member

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    Hi, Yes the water keeps running, even if I pull up on the float. The water runs into the overflow and does not stop. I couldnt see it being anything else since the flapper is sealing perfectly.
     
  5. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

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    Depending on the specifics of the fill valve you have, they all have a rubber seal in them to stop the water flow. On some, it's fairly easily replaced and quicker and less expensive than replacing the whole valve. Without knowing the brand and model, can't tell you the best way to fix it.
     
  6. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

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    OK on the symptoms. Often people blame intermittent running on the fill valve when it is really a flush valve problem.

    Both Korky and Fluidmaster make reliable shutoff valves. The Korkys have an easier to replace cap that replaces the seal. http://m.korky.com/landing.php is a finder for the Korky fill valves.

    Some people have excessive water pressure. That usually triggers an intermittent running.
     
  7. myz8a4re

    myz8a4re New Member

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    I appreciate the input Jim, Sorry I don't have a brand for you but it was a cheap, brick and mortar store off the shelf product. I may just replace the valve and pull this current one apart to see how it seals to satisfy my curiosity. Thanx for the input Jim!
     
  8. myz8a4re

    myz8a4re New Member

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    Interesting information, Im now starting to research the Brands you listed. Thank you for the link!
     
  9. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

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    A picture might help. The two biggest fill valve brands out there are probably Korky and Fluidmaster, both generally available at a big box store. Both of them can be repaired with a replaceable seal in a few minutes without tools. Depending on the brand and type of toilet, you need a valve compatible with it to minimize water use. The bowl gets filled while the tank is, but the ratio of water that goes to the bowl may be incorrect for some toilets with some fill valves. If the bowl isn't full, it won't flush properly. If it puts too much water into the bowl, it just runs out and down the drain, but wastes some with each flush. The ideal situation is to have both refilled at exactly the same time. Some fill valves are adjustable, or you can buy the exact replacement model, otherwise, it's pot luck and you're likely to be wasting water or performance.
     
  10. myz8a4re

    myz8a4re New Member

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    Thank you for your input. I went and looked and the fill valve is a Fluidmaster 0265A.
     
  11. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

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    If the fill tube is too far into the overflow, it will siphon the tank.
    There should be a gap between the hose and the top of the overflow tube.
     
  12. myz8a4re

    myz8a4re New Member

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    Thanx Terry, I have a clip on the overflow tube that holds the fill hose above the tube approx. 3/8". The line at the connection of the fill tube is higher than where it feeds from the filler
     
  13. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

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    You can replace the rubber seal on most of the Fluidmasters without tools in less than a minute after you shut the water off and flush the toilet to lower the water level. Not familiar with that model, so this may not apply. A search of 0265A at www.fluidmaster.com did not come up with any hits...you sure about that number? The seal for the 400 series costs $2.75 at Home Depot.
     
  14. myz8a4re

    myz8a4re New Member

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    Thanx Jadnashua, that is the number on top of the black cap, maby that is just the PN for the cap. Im honestly not sure what model it is. I have a pic but can't find a way to upload it on my cell since I'm at work. I'm usually posting from my laptop at home. I'll probably upgrade/change to a 400 series, then I get get the seal if I have the problem in the future. Thanx again!
     
  15. wjcandee

    wjcandee Wise One

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    If you're going to swap the valve anyway, try the Korky. If it's in an older generic toilet, the white-cap 528 is probably fine. If it's in a low-flow, then the 528MP Maxperformance, with the adjustable refill percentage, is the one you want.

    Fill valve failure that quick (a few months) is likely caused by a higher-than-normal water pressure (or hot water being connected to the toilet; a friend's bar burned through quite a few of them before finally fixing the plumbing to put the toilet on the cold line). Jim has some good guidelines in other threads about how to measure water pressure and the possible need for an expansion tank in your system.
     
  16. myz8a4re

    myz8a4re New Member

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    Thank you for that input. I do know the water coming in is not Hot but I never thought about the pressure. I'll look that information up. I do have a Korky in the other bathroom and it had been working well for some time now. To be honest I didn't know what it was untill i popped the lid on it yesterday, but I saw the Korky logo on the red flapper and I did purchase it as a kit. Mabey I'll purchase that same kit and check the pressure of the water coming into the fill valve. Thank you once again!
     
  17. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

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    You can check the pressure pretty much anywhere on your plumbing, such as a garden hose spigot. Ideally you will get a gauge with a second hand that records the highest pressure seen. An example is the Watts DP IWTG. Leave the gauge in place for a night or more.
     
  18. wjcandee

    wjcandee Wise One

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    Sure. If the kit is reasonably-priced, that's cool. They also sell the fill valves separately.

    On the water pressure thing, Jim recommends a little screw-on pressure gauge that you can put on an outside or laundry faucet. An example:

    LDR 020 9645 Pressure Gauge, 3/4-Inch IPS, 200 lb. Pressure

    Something like this with a telltale that will record the maximum pressure over time is useful, because you can put it on for 24 hours and see if the pressure rises at any point. One reason it might is if your hot water heater is operating in a "closed" system. When it's on and the water is heated, it expands. In a closed system, the water has nowhere to expand to because pipes don't expand. This means that water pressure rises, sometimes by a lot. The rising pressure usually finds a way to escape, and that usually means through the weakest valve, which is most often something like an outside hose bib that isn't screwed down totally-tight or a toilet fill valve. A properly-functioning expansion tank solves this. Or sometimes your municipal pressure is high or fluctuates during the day, and without a pressure reducing valve near your meter (or a broken pressure reducing valve), you can get too-high pressure.

    Jim has a lot more good stuff on this if you can find the thread(s).
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 31, 2015
  19. myz8a4re

    myz8a4re New Member

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    Great info guys! I do have a water pressure tester (inline style) that i had purchased to check the pressure coming into my travel trailer when I'm hooked up at different sites. I can probably just use that but it doesn't have the spike record needle on it. I could easily attach it between the spigot and house with the nozzle attached to get a rough idea. Thanx again!
     
  20. wjcandee

    wjcandee Wise One

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    Let us know how it goes!
     
  21. Wallijonn

    Wallijonn Member

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