Kohler Wellworth leaking

[DX]

Kohler Wellworth 2 piece toilet, about 20 yrs old, 1.6gal. It's in the basement bath so rarely used.
I just replaced the tank to bowl gasket and bolts, the blue flapper with the float thingie and I also put in a Fluidmaster "leak sentry" fill valve.
Everything works fine but the tank is empty after a few hours. So looks like the flush valve is leaking. I checked the "rim" that the flapper seats on and it's smooth with no deposits or defects of any kind.
All parts except the fill valve are genuine Kohler and correct per the diagram on the back of the tank lid.
So:
1. Any ideas of what is causing it to leak? And/or how to fix it?
2. Are the length of the bead chain and the position of the float thingie citical? There were no instructions for adjustment.

 

[Jeff H Young]

bad flush valve assembly, or installation , cracked overflow tub or busted plastic down low, chain too tight, bad flapper , could cracked tank too .

 

[Sponsor]

 

[DX]

Nothing is cracked, I had it all apart and examined carefully.
Flapper is new, just installed it, looked fine.
Chain has some slack so it's not pulling the flapper off the seat

Bad flush valve assembly, how would it be bad? Somehow distorted or out of round? I see no physical defects.

Edit: I wonder if the Kohler flush valves with the slant rim are more prone to leaking than the normal horizontal rim valves and if so, is there a different style flush valve available?

 

[GReynolds929]

Based on the water level it looks like a flapper seal issue. Fill the tank and use some food coloring to see where it's leaking from.

 

[DX]

I'm not sure I follow you. What do you mean "where it's leaking from"? It's leaking from the tank into the bowl, that's why the tank is left empty.
I don't understand what food coloring would tell me that I don't already know.

 

[Jeff H Young]

correct the dye just tells you the water is going from tank to bowl which we know.
Bad assembly meaning cracked or whatever . the flapper I concider part of the assembly and the tank to bowl gasket is all part of the kit right ? you could have cracked the tank too I suppose

 

[Peterson]

Do you see any water on the floor? Or is it all leaking directly into the bowl? Since there is water in the bottom of the tank, that tells me that it's leaking from the flapper - not the tank bolts or flush valve body itself. I'd get one of the red Korky Flappers. They are wide and flexible enough to cover the seat of the flush valve thoroughly.

 

[Reach4]

I'm not sure I follow you. What do you mean "where it's leaking from"? It's leaking from the tank into the bowl, that's why the tank is left empty.
I don't understand what food coloring would tell me that I don't already know.

Does the water level stop dropping at the seat, or does it drop even farther?

 

[DX]

Since there is water in the bottom of the tank

Does the water level stop dropping at the seat, or does it drop even farther?

Very good point. It was only a couple hours when I took the photo. Will flush a few more times and wait longer each time just to see if it does the same thing consistently.
I don't believe the red Korky will fit this valve, it takes the blue one with the float marshmallow.
No there are no external leaks. No water on the floor.

Bad assembly meaning cracked or whatever

Yeah. No. All new parts except for the flush valve body and everything was carefully inspected, nothing was defective or damaged.

 

[Jeff H Young]

its always a good bet to go with flapper , but there can be other issues . he did say it emptys and did not say that picture denotes the as low as it goes . flapper is definately number one cause even a new one might not seat properly. actuall depending how the dye is itroduced into a tank you can see the dye go down the leak by using drops

 

[BECplumbing]

Kohler Wellworth 2 piece toilet, about 20 yrs old, 1.6gal. It's in the basement bath so rarely used.
I just replaced the tank to bowl gasket and bolts, the blue flapper with the float thingie and I also put in a Fluidmaster "leak sentry" fill valve.
Everything works fine but the tank is empty after a few hours. So looks like the flush valve is leaking. I checked the "rim" that the flapper seats on and it's smooth with no deposits or defects of any kind.
All parts except the fill valve are genuine Kohler and correct per the diagram on the back of the tank lid.
So:
1. Any ideas of what is causing it to leak? And/or how to fix it?
2. Are the length of the bead chain and the position of the float thingie citical? There were no instructions for adjustment.

Check to see how much slack is in the chain. If there isn’t any than add some slack in the chain. If that doesn’t work then the flush valve is probably compromised and will need to be replaced. But there is an unlikely chance of the flapper being defective. What I would do is replace the flapper and see if that fixes the problem. If that doesn’t fix then the flush valve will need to be replaced.

 

[DX]

There is slack in the chain. You can see it in my picture in post #3.
What is a "compromised" flush valve? What am I looking for?

 

[BECplumbing]

There is slack in the chain. You can see it in my picture in post #3.
What is a "compromised" flush valve? What am I looking for?

The flush valve could be leaking due to a crack in the flush valve or because the seal in between the the bottom of the tank and the flush valve is leaking. You probably need a new flush valve which you can find at any hardware store or plumbing supply house.

 

[DX]

No, the flush valve is not cracked, I had it out and inspected when I replaced the tank to bowl gasket. And the flush valve bottom seal was replaced with a new one.

 

[BECplumbing]

No, the flush valve is not cracked, I had it out and inspected when I replaced the tank to bowl gasket. And the flush valve bottom seal was replaced with a new one.

how tight did you tighten the flush valve. If you only hand tightened the flush valve then that is likely the cause of the leak.

 

[DX]

I tightened it with an adjustable wrench like this, used on edge. Yes it's a bit hard to get to the nut and Kohler should provide a plastic wrench with the kit.

Crescent 11in. Automotive Adjustable Wrench C711H - The Home Depot

Visit The Home Depot to buy 11 in. Automotive Sliding Wrench C711H

www.homedepot.com

 

[BECplumbing]

I tightened it with an adjustable wrench like this, used on edge. Yes it's a bit hard to get to the nut and Kohler should provide a plastic wrench with the kit.

Crescent 11in. Automotive Adjustable Wrench C711H - The Home Depot

Visit The Home Depot to buy 11 in. Automotive Sliding Wrench C711H

www.homedepot.com

It shouldn’t be leaking then. The only thing I can think of that could be wrong is if something is wrong with the flush valve since it was the only part you didn’t replace. I think it would be a good idea to replace the flush valve even if it doesn’t look defective since that is most likely the problem

 

[DX]

Problem solved.
After much experimenting I couldn't figure out why it was leaking, so I replaced the original Kohler slant flush valve with a universal Fluidmaster 2" flush valve.
No more leaking.
I examined the Kohler valve (and the blue flapper, which was new) closely and I can't see anything wrong with it. No cracks or other defects, wear, deposits or anything else. So I conclude it's just a bad design.
The Fluidmaster works fine but it has one serious flaw. The friction washer that goes under the big hex nut is paper. Totally ridiculous. Not cardboard, but thin paper. It would tear if you look at it wrong, never mind getting it wet accidentally. Fortunately the old Kohler one was sturdy plastic so I re-used it.