User review on CST454CEFG 2 piece TOTO Drake II, Gwenyth, Owner comments and pictures

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ttmatsu

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800 Map rating (1 piece model rates 500). White, Beige and Bone come only in CEFIONTECT while Black and Gray do not come with CEFIONTECT. Available only in ADA height. 9" X 7" "waterspot" (looks very small compared to old toilet).

I replaced three perfectly functioning 1990s era Briggs toilets with 2 Gwenyths and an Eco-Drake (BTW, the Eco Drake has a 10" X 8" waterspot). The only drawback to the Briggs was having to hold down the handle to get a full flush when #2 was deposited. Almost never clogged and had a very quiet flushing action. As Terry mentions, we replaced because it's the right thing to do with the drought conditions in the West (especially in SoCal where I am).

cst454_zoom.jpg


I bought white and the installation is like any other non-skirted toilet. I wanted the double cyclone action but not the uni-fit and the reported drip noise. I also didn't want to mess with the tile floors being drilled. Attaching the tank, I couldn't get it on the 3 raised edges without exerting more force than I was comfortable with so the tank rocked a little when using the flushing lever. I loosened the nuts holding the tank to the bowl, inserted a rubber washer (the ones you use inside a outdoor watering hose) between the tank and the back raised edge. This allowed me to tighten the nuts without exerting too much pressure and get contact with the front edges. Rock solid tank with no movement.

This is my first low flow toilet. Reading the reviews and comments on this forum did not prepare me for just how quick the flushing action is. With my old toilets, the water would slowly start to rise in the bowl, then start swirling and finally, start going down the drain. Of course, refilling that much water also took quite a while. With the Gwenyth, you depress the flush lever fully and let go and the flush is done. I guess when you are only dealing with 1.28 gallons, it has to be quick. While my old toilets had a gentle quiet flushing action, the Toto is quick and violent. BAM! The waste is gone. GLUG GLUG GLUG when the violence is over as water forms waves and eddies when the bowl is emptied and water comes in to refill the empty bowl. No splashing or anything but it is incredible to see the bowl empty that quickly. It is loud in comparison to the old toilet.

To appreciate the double cyclone action, you have to put food coloring or leak detector into the tank. It really does swirl all around the bowl. A "tube" of water is released from the two holes, quickly flattens out and works its way around and down. With the Eco Drake, there is minimal bowl wash at the back and sides. It mainly comes down the front of the bowl.

We're a family of 4 and have not had any issues with skid marks or clogging. My 17 year old wanted a "quiet" toilet and while she acknowledges it's louder than the old toilets, the Totos meet her concept of a "quiet" toilet. Must be that some of her friends have pressure assisted flush. Everyone likes how fast the flush is.

The seats are comfortable enough to me and the wife finds them very comfortable for toilet seats. The toilet does what it's supposed to with great efficiency. We are now looking for a disinfecting cleaner that isn't a stain eraser to keep the integrity of the CEFIONTECT. Apparently, stain removal translates to acid in toilet bowl cleaners. We don't have a staining problem with our toilets (or maybe the acid containing cleaner just did a great job on the old toilets).

Why 2 Gwenyths and 1 Drake instead of all Drakes or all Gwenyths? My wife wanted maximum bowl wash to minimize risk of skid marks so the master bath and downstairs main bath got the Gwenyths while the kids bath got the Drake (they're moving out in few years so it will be rarely used and I save $100). But we haven't had any issues with marks on the Drake. Also, my wife is height challenged so I needed to put in 1 regular height toilet in case she was uncomfortable with the height of the Gwenyths but she hasn't had any issues using the Gwenyth.

Why the 2 piece rather than 1 piece? Cost and weight. I install the bowl then assemble the tank because I don't want to mess with a 100 pound toilet.


Originally, TOTO had a one-piece and a two-piece Gwyneth
These are now:
MS604114CEFG, Ultramax II
CST454CEFG, Drake II

cst454-green.jpg
 
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tesla

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Great review! Did the MaP rating difference between the one piece vs the 2 piece make a difference for you? I'm leaning to the 2 piece for that reason. I do like the idea of never worrying about a leak between the tank and the bowl on a one piece but after reading these forums I'm not seeing a problem with that on the Toto's.
 

SteveW

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Get the one-piece and don't look back.

I obsessed a little over the MaP differentials for the two Gwyneth versions but settled on 2 of the one-piece units. Both have worked great and have gotten very good workouts without clogs.

Terry tells us that any MaP score of 500 or more is fine. Differences between toilets which have at least scores of 500 are not consequential.

I like the appearance of the one-piece, and the lack of a joint between tank and bowl (easier cleaning).

I put them in myself and didn't find the weight to be a problem.

Great review, incidentally. The GLUG GLUG GLUG is right on - I think it is the way Totos are engineered, to suck waste out of the bowl instead of push it out.
 

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burghman

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I am also interested in some feedback regarding the Drake II and other Toto ECO toilets. I had pretty much decided on buying a couple of Drake's, but my local distributor is very high on the newer 1.28g models.
 

Terry

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The CST454CEFG Drake II, rated at 800 grams has been working very well.

Watersense 1.28 Gallons
CEFIONTECT
Universal Height
Elongated

cst454_zoom.jpg


And TOTO now has the Vespin II, with skirted bowl.
The Drake II and the Vespin II use the same stylish tank, with the Vespin getting the Skirted bowl treatment.
That means the Vespin II can be used on a 10", 12" or 14" rough-in.
cst474cefg_main.jpg

TOTO Vespin II, CST474CEFG
Universal Height
CEFIONTECT
Skirted bowl

cst474_side.jpg

Toto Vespin II CST474CEFG with SS114 Softclose seat.
This bowl was installed on a 13-1/2" rough-in using the 14" Unifit adapter.
The water shutoff can be as close as 5-1/2" to the left of center, unless it's higher off the floor, and then it can be even closer to center.
This shutoff had been replaced with a new 1/4 turn valve with brass nipple through the wall.
Installation was by James Love of Love Plumbing & Remodel 206-949-5683
In some of the older Seattle homes, the old toilets had been wall mounted tank toilets.
Those typically are 14" rough-in and need a flange repair to use standard closet bolt connections at the flange.
Everything is on the truck for that.
The Vespin comes with a standard 12" adapter or you can order a 10" or 14" adapter depending on your rough-in distance.

st454e-terrylove-1.jpg
 
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jcarerra

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I am in an evaluation/decision mode between bone Drake CST744S? 1.6, non-CEFIONTECT, std ht, and a bone Drake II CST454CEFG 1.28, 'universal' ht, w/CEFIONTECT. I really wanted the CEFIONTECT and "kind of" wanted the higher height, but Drake II is $499--$137 more, and I need two (+274 delta). And I am a bit concerned about the previous comment regarding noise.

Now that I read what I just wrote, I am not sure what I am asking. I guess it is a personal choice of features and price that I have to make. And is Drake II "that" much better?
 

Terry

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The Drake II is a little nicer then the Drake.
Noise? They are fairly good with noise levels. Pretty subtle, but some of that depends on the plumbing in your home too.
I've seen some Drakes installed that very quiet, and some that had more noise volumne, so it seems to be the piping and or structure that they are going into.

The ADA Drake is closer in price to the Drake II.
In color, I'm selling the ADA Drake in Bone for $394 and the Drake II in Bone for $409.99
About $16.00 difference for the tall one.

I sold a lot of the Drake II's last week.

epps_drake_2.jpg
 
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jadnashua

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For what it's worth, I've seen that toilet for less than $400...shop around a little more. Colors, other than white, always add a bit to the price. the Drake is a fine toilet, the Drake II adds better water conservation, better bowl wash, and CEFIONTECT is good, too.
 

KiterTodd

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I just found this picture funny....

"Hi Neighbor!"

cst474_side.jpg


Interesting place for a window in that old bathroom.
 

petras52

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The Drake II is a little nicer then the Drake.
Noise? They are fairly good with noise levels. Pretty subtle, but some of that depends on the plumbing in your home too.
I've seen some Drakes installed that very quiet, and some that had more noise volumne, so it seems to be the piping and or structure that they are going into.

The ADA Drake is closer in price to the Drake II.
In color, I'm selling the ADA Drake in Bone for $394 and the Drake II in Bone for $409.99
About $16.00 difference for the tall one.

I sold a lot of the Drake II's last week.

Hi
Are there any 2pc round, standard height, not ADA, toto models in bone or beige with the CEFIONTECT glaze? I was hoping that the original drake model would offer the CEFIONTECT in colors but it doesn't..thanks
 

petras52

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drake in colors with CEFIONTECT?

The Drake II is a little nicer then the Drake.
Noise? They are fairly good with noise levels. Pretty subtle, but some of that depends on the plumbing in your home too.
I've seen some Drakes installed that very quiet, and some that had more noise volumne, so it seems to be the piping and or structure that they are going into.

The ADA Drake is closer in price to the Drake II.
In color, I'm selling the ADA Drake in Bone for $394 and the Drake II in Bone for $409.99
About $16.00 difference for the tall one.

I sold a lot of the Drake II's last week.

Hi
Are there any 2pc round, standard height, not ADA, toto models in bone or beige with the CEFIONTECT glaze? I was hoping that the original drake model would offer the CEFIONTECT in colors but it doesn't..thanks

The original Vespin is more standard height, comes with CEFIONTECT and comes in colors.
 
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cjldad

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Just installed a Drake II this evening.. For the most part I'm happy.. I noticed inside the trap on the bottom wasn't glazed.. Thought that was suposed to be the case... I couldn't feel it glazed at all for as far as I could reach inside.. Just felt like raw ceramic.. Also, the finish inside at the back of the bowl wasn't perfect. I can't feel anything, but you can tell it's not completely covered in white.. Thoughts?

Haven't put it to any tests yet, but it does look much nicer than the Mansfield 130-160 it replaced..

Also, was able to get it delivered for $***.. (May be why I have a few "defects")
 
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Terry

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I prefer the trapway to be a little rough.
Talking to Toto, they do too. They work better that way. Think about it. If you take a babywipe and throw it at a textured wall, it falls off.
Try throwing it at your mirror, it sticks. Hmmmmm
Those guys must be pretty smart.

And what back of the bowl? The part that is up against the wall?

cst474_uyeda_1.jpg


TOTO Vespin II
 
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Master

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In the old days bowl glazed the same inside and out no matter the cost of unit. At bottom of toilet less glaze on part where unit touch floor. Cost cutting on glaze in toilet tank common as it is today. I have experience in breaking up old water closets with a sledge so know traps were smooth. Paid $1.25 per hour in those days as a plumber helper.

Is it an inherent design flaw in all low water usage toilets made today where they cannot glaze entire toilet trap? Is this a cost cutting measure on less expensive models? I would have never thought to put my hand down the bowl trap to check. Guess that will be a priority now before buying.
 

Terry

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Like I said before, a smooth trap will clog more often. Paper will stick to it.
That's why the Toto works better then those old toilets that had the trapways fully glazed.

Even the new banned swim suits are rough on the outside to speed the swimmers through the water.
 
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