Uponor PEX issues - 5 leaks in 2 months. House built in 2015. Need advice.

[Jessmaster006]

Just reached out to Uponor Warranty Claims <warrantyclaims@uponor.com> and am awaiting word.

Uponor has a website dedicated to warranty claims, which is suspect, but take a look at the very first question to begin the process (see the screenshot).

To which I read that as: option 1. send us the damaged section of pipe, which we'll test and probably destroy to prevent any future evidence for a lawsuit OR option 2. we'll conduct a visual inspection and most certainly deny your claim.

It doesn't instill confidence.

 

[JohnCT]

My view differs because I have a hand tool, rather than a power tool

Yikes! I borrowed a hand expander the first time I expanded PEX, did two connections, and returned it. I ordered the Milwaukee with the 1/2" and 3/4 heads. I think the hand expander would be fine if I had three arms...

John

 

[Sponsor]

 

[JohnCT]

Just reached out to Uponor Warranty Claims <warrantyclaims@uponor.com> and am awaiting word.

Uponor has a website dedicated to warranty claims, which is suspect, but take a look at the very first question to begin the process (see the screenshot).

To which I read that as: option 1. send us the damaged section of pipe, which we'll test and probably destroy to prevent any future evidence for a lawsuit OR option 2. we'll conduct a visual inspection and most certainly deny your claim.

It doesn't instill confidence.

Ask them to provide in writing/email the exact amount of pipe that they need to "destroy" in order to determine if their pipe is bad...

John

 

[Jeff H Young]

Just reached out to Uponor Warranty Claims <warrantyclaims@uponor.com> and am awaiting word.

Uponor has a website dedicated to warranty claims, which is suspect, but take a look at the very first question to begin the process (see the screenshot).

To which I read that as: option 1. send us the damaged section of pipe, which we'll test and probably destroy to prevent any future evidence for a lawsuit OR option 2. we'll conduct a visual inspection and most certainly deny your claim.

It doesn't instill confidence.

Jessie Thanks for sharing useful info in understanding some of this some of the hystrical homeowners dont seem to get that just whinning isnt a help .
One thing is its at least partly understandable that a destructive test is done , however if they were determine that warranty wasent granted they damn sure oughta give back your property. secondly Uponors failure to figure out "root cause" dosent mean to me that thier failure to understand why it failed wouldnt absolve them from warranty in my ( not so legal ) opinion. its like saying we arent very smart we dont know why it failed so it must be someone elses fault.
Why not refuse to submit a sample and only after denial of claim thgen submit submit a sample?
I want Uponor to co operate and the homeowners and hate Lawyers involved .
Im wondering based on Uponors comment on finding root cause what they have been determining on other cases and why none of these I call Hysterical owners havent told us ? secret agreements maybe?
Any way Jess What would you really expect them to do with the samples ? better idea no testing of anything ? Im not sure

 

[Jessmaster006]

Yeah, you're true. I suspect they have to cya themselves too from fraudulent claims, etc. I've decided to continue down the path of sending them at least one failed section. I'm sure I'll have plenty more as the entire house is ripe for failure (I guess). But I'll take the advice of @JohnCT to inquire about specifics.

Oh and today got a quote to repipe for $18k, so dang. Oh, oh and heard that my initial quote for $10k (over the phone) was from a known company based out of AZ that might just have an office here and simply outsource the entire job, so I'm no longer including that estimate into our quotes of consideration.

Thanks guys. More to follow.

 

[Jim Goodman]

Hope I can get some feedback. I'm in Raleigh, NC. My house was roughed in with Uponor in the first half of 2012. We moved in in September of 2016 (long story), so the system wasn't in use until then but the production lot was from early 2012. We have had no problems so far. Now....we are on a well, so no chlorine or other chemicals are in the picture at all. I do have a softener, Katalox Light backwash filter, and a catalytic carbon backwash filter. I also do NOT have a recirculation pump on the hot side. Also, there are just 2 of us in the house. I have not read of the experience of anyone with Uponor who is on a well. Does anyone know if there have been leak problems on well water? And it does seem annecdotally from this and other forums that the problems seems to be in pipe produced approximately between 2015 and 2018.....is that generally the case? Dreading that I might have timebomb but hoping being on well water might save me. Thanks.

 

[najna]

Jessie Thanks for sharing useful info in understanding some of this some of the hystrical homeowners dont seem to get that just whinning isnt a help .
One thing is its at least partly understandable that a destructive test is done , however if they were determine that warranty wasent granted they damn sure oughta give back your property. secondly Uponors failure to figure out "root cause" dosent mean to me that thier failure to understand why it failed wouldnt absolve them from warranty in my ( not so legal ) opinion. its like saying we arent very smart we dont know why it failed so it must be someone elses fault.
Why not refuse to submit a sample and only after denial of claim thgen submit submit a sample?
I want Uponor to co operate and the homeowners and hate Lawyers involved .
Im wondering based on Uponors comment on finding root cause what they have been determining on other cases and why none of these I call Hysterical owners havent told us ? secret agreements maybe?
Any way Jess What would you really expect them to do with the samples ? better idea no testing of anything ? Im not sure

Here you go, let me know if this helps (from a fellow hysterical homeowner i think i have every reason to be):

"Uponor’s evaluation has determined the performance issues you have experienced within your plumbing system were the result of a failure mechanism known as oxidation. It was confirmed that no manufacturing defects were present in the products you returned, though the root cause of the oxidation remains inconclusive."

So I guess basically they are saying that their new hot water pipes can just be susceptible to oxidizing after less then 5 years and thats somehow not their fault. I wonder if my new Pex B pipes will have the same issue in 5 years, but i bet not..

 

[JohnCT]

It was confirmed that no manufacturing defects were present in the products you returned, though the root cause of the oxidation remains inconclusive."

So the pipe oxidized but they don't know why. If they don't know the root cause, how do they know it's not their pipe?

But let's go on their word that the pipe was indeed manufactured perfectly - isn't that a *bigger* red flag? Honestly, if they really think their pipe manufacturing is not the issue, then they should pull the pipe off the market entirely until they can identify what causes the failure in some locations but not others. Considering the scope of damage leaks and re-pipe cause to the home, it's not fair for people to have Uponor installed where it might require the house to be torn up to replace.

Right now, they're selling pipe that clearly doesn't work everywhere, but they don't offer the customers any disclosure of that fact when buying that their pipe may not work in every place for its intended use..

John

 

[Rmatos]

@Jessmaster006 - I’m having the same PEX pinhole leak issues in my 2016 built home. I’m out towards Acworth/Dallas area. By chance, would you be willing to share the names of the companies you obtained quotes from. I’d like to give them a call to get estimates also.

 

[BattleBorn]

New to this forum, been plumbing and pipefitting since 2008, mostly commercial and industrial. Got my journeyman license at the age of 22 back in 2010 or so and have recently got my plumbing contractor's license. I had an under-slab leak on my own home and repiped it with red and blue Uponor in 2019. I live in Nevada where the water is pretty hard but not sure on the Cholrine levels in our city water. I haven't had any leaks, but I am getting ready to remodel one of my bathrooms on a back-to-back wall that I ran pex down. I'm anxious to see if I am having any of the yellowing or cracking on my lines. I'm assuming that the pex was made in 2018, most likely going to try to replace as much of it as possible with the new white/ clear pex from uponor. I too wonder what the future of Uponor's pex a will be, is this the tip of the iceberg or just a few cases of bad batch or bad water etc. I'll post what I find in the next week or so.

 

[JohnCT]

I had an under-slab leak on my own home and repiped it with red and blue Uponor in 2019. I live in Nevada where the water is pretty hard but not sure on the Cholrine levels in our city water. I haven't had any leaks, but I am getting ready to remodel one of my bathrooms on a back-to-back wall that I ran pex down. I'm anxious to see if I am having any of the yellowing or cracking on my lines...I'll post what I find in the next week or so.

If it was me, I'd reconsider using Uponor at this point - no one, including Uponor, knows why some pipe is failing and some pipe isn't. It may have to do with chlorine or chloramine levels and it may not, and it's not just the red and blue pipe but the white pipe has also failed.

Hoping you find no problems at all.

John

 

[Jeff H Young]

New to this forum, been plumbing and pipefitting since 2008, mostly commercial and industrial. Got my journeyman license at the age of 22 back in 2010 or so and have recently got my plumbing contractor's license. I had an under-slab leak on my own home and repiped it with red and blue Uponor in 2019. I live in Nevada where the water is pretty hard but not sure on the Cholrine levels in our city water. I haven't had any leaks, but I am getting ready to remodel one of my bathrooms on a back-to-back wall that I ran pex down. I'm anxious to see if I am having any of the yellowing or cracking on my lines. I'm assuming that the pex was made in 2018, most likely going to try to replace as much of it as possible with the new white/ clear pex from uponor. I too wonder what the future of Uponor's pex a will be, is this the tip of the iceberg or just a few cases of bad batch or bad water etc. I'll post what I find in the next week or so.

Welcome Battleborn ! Your is a differant case it sounds like you had a slab leak but no mention of type of pipe you had previous? Not clear if youve ever had a problem with your repiped home or just precautionary? run copper in the back to back bathroom if concerned.
Im wondering what percent of homes have the aleged defect ? 1 in 10 ? 1 in a thousand ?

 

[JohnCT]

Im wondering what percent of homes have the aleged defect ? 1 in 10 ? 1 in a thousand ?

Probably far less than that - far, far less.

The problem for me though is that the failure mechanism with Uponor is unknown, and I'd be the guy who ends up with the bad pipe. I can't win a money lottery, but I can beat all odds for getting the booby prize..

John

 

[Lcssmu]

Hello- I write this as we have no water and are in the process of re-piping our entire home. We had Uponor pex installed in 2012 here in Denver, CO. About six weeks ago, we had one red line near the water heater spring a pin hole leak mid-pipe. As they went to repair it, they found the pipe was yellowed on the inside, and the outside of the lines were so brittle that they could not attach the replacement pipe with normal joints as anywhere on the old red that they connected it to would crack.

Three weeks later- another mid pipe hole in another location. I had them rip out all the red pex in the basement- over 100 yards. A week later- a mid pipe leak in a red pipe on the first floor. Claims and insurance aside, I couldn't sit around and deal with this forever so they are cutting out 100% of the piping on the home. Given my concerns, I had them rip out the blue as well. While I'm no plumber, as I inspect the various pipes that have been cut out- the blue looks to me to be "yellowing" on the inside as well, just not as much as the red.

Of course, I hadn't read as much as I should have and didn't even think to ask- and now they are 90% done re-piping the house with "new" Uponor pex! No idea if those itegrity videos are correct or not but the idea that this is the same pipe that will have the same problems in 10 years makes me sick to my stomach.

For what it's worth, another home we know in Denver done by the same plumber with the same pipe at the same time is having the exact same issues. I suppose next steps will be to test the water in my home for high chlorine, as well as to test water temps from furnace to make sure they aren't too hot and also adjust the recirc pump to run only when really needed.

Maddening.

 

[JohnCT]

I suppose next steps will be to test the water in my home for high chlorine, as well as to test water temps from furnace to make sure they aren't too hot and also adjust the recirc pump to run only when really needed.

Honestly, I wouldn't use recirc at all with any pipe other than copper, and to be honest, I don't know if I'd use it with copper either. The more total water moves through any pipe in its lifetime, the more wear that occurs. And with using recirculation, the pipe is also hot all the time as well.

If you have open access, I'd consider running smaller diameter pipes direct to the far fixtures instead of trunking off a 3/4" pipe if that's what you're doing now and not use recirculation at all. You won't get instant heat but you'll get it faster for sure than with trunk and branch plumbing.

Integrity states categorically that it's a chlorine or chloramine issue with PEX A, but I don't think there's enough information that is publicly known to be sure. I strongly suspect that Uponor knows, but they're not saying.

For all we know, it could simply be batches of pipe that was stored under UV conditions like outside or even inside under bright warehouse lighting that is dying early.

John

 

[Lcssmu]

Thanks John. Agree at this point it's just to hard to say why they are failing. I'm comforted somewhat by the sheer amount of Uponor that's been installed in the US and what seems to be a low fail rate. Wondering if Denver (and maybe Atlanta by reading this string) got unlucky with either bad batches or perhaps mishandled batches.

 

[Jeff H Young]

Thanks John. Agree at this point it's just to hard to say why they are failing. I'm comforted somewhat by the sheer amount of Uponor that's been installed in the US and what seems to be a low fail rate. Wondering if Denver (and maybe Atlanta by reading this string) got unlucky with either bad batches or perhaps mishandled batches.

if the number of people with problems are represented in this forum the problem might be really small. Take some body like you , you just joined im guessing because you googled something and here you are thios is only 97 posts probebly like 15 people out of 10s of thousand or 100s of thousands of homes . if i had a problem with my brand new car gtrtansmission blowing up Id google it and find like 10 guys that bought the same car complaining of the issue out of a million cars all of us would be on some site together thinking there are millions of POS cars out there. and then we can all find a you tube by some nut job with false claims .
Lcssmu, I dont mean to minimize and sympathy for the inconvieniance I just dont know if the perspective on the problem is accurate and I think there is some either false or misleading info about Uponor.
Tell us about the remedy youy said an entire repipe ? using what type of material brand? type a type b . copper type L maybe a good choice?

 

[Breplum]

We are constantly being called about ongoing multiple leaks on older, colored Uponor- piped homes.

 

[Jeff H Young]

We are constantly being called about ongoing multiple leaks on older, colored Uponor- piped homes.

all have the same issue?

 

[Breplum]

all have the same issue?

Yes. all the 'same'. Cracks at the expanded end at point of connection. Nightmare for homeowners.