Toilet Lead Flange Options

[Ross Winberg]

Remodeling a 1930's half bath. Apologies if I'm not using the right terms for things. I removed several layers of old flooring and here's where I'm at.

It looks to me like the original lead flange is there. I also looks like a lead "top hat" liner was added (1-1/4" above the wood floor, extends about a foot down into the drain), either because the floor was raised, the original flange was cracking at the edges or both. I am assuming that the opening at the side picture) is some sort of vent. The original toilet did not flush well at all. I am assuming that this is because one of those push-tite PVC flanges was used and this covered up the venting? In a perfect world, I'd use one of those offset flanges and move the toilet 1-1/2" towards the wall, but I'd be OK with doing a straight one. My floor will be 1/4" cement board + ~1/4" mortar + 3/8" tile = 7/8" total floor thickness so I appear to have plenty of lead to solder to a flange.

> Should I put in a brass flange and solder it in? I had also seen someone use "Plastic Seal" in a YouTube video to do this. I've very good with copper plumbing. Do I need a different type of solder/flux?
> Should I use some epoxy and fill in the wood holes under where the flange will be to make sure that the wood is structurally sound? It looks a little beat up.
> If I can do a brass offset flange, what's with that mounting tab on some of the offset flanges? Do I need a different sort of wax ring to work with the larger opening? I'm putting in a Toto Drake II.

 

[Reach4]

The original toilet did not flush well at all. I am assuming that this is because one of those push-tite PVC flanges was used and this covered up the venting?

Nope. Venting would be well out of range of a Push-tite flange. That was not the cause. The new toilet will flush much better I expect. They make an offset push-tite with a stainless ring. 889-GPOM Sioux Chief. It is for 4 inch inside, not 3.

I like the idea of strengthening the wood with epoxy, but you want really slow set epoxy. https://www.rotdoctor.com/house/Hmain.html sells products for the purpose. I don't have specific knowledge on them. I am not a pro.

 

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[Ross Winberg]

I think you're right about the flange. I measured the depth and yes, the vent would have been below the Push-tite. I've read in other threads that people don't recommend using a Push-tite with a lead sleeve because the inside surface is kinda wobbly and you might not get a good seal, hence leaning towards bronze flange.

 

[Jadnashua]

If you want to do a tiled floor per industry standards, you must install at LEAST 1/2" plywood over those planks before you can then add the 1/4" cement board (cbu). It looks like what may have been there before was an unbonded deck mud floor (nominally at least 1.5" or so thick). That CAN be installed over planks. THe plywood must not have any 'D' face, and must be stamped either Exposure 1 or Exterior so that it will handle moisture without delaminating in the build process. All cbu manufacturers also require that you use thinset UNDERNEATH the cbu. That's not to hold it down, it's to make sure that the board is 100% supported...the screws hold it down. Also, while an unbonded mud bed can often handle a less than ideal floor structure, when using cbu, it won't. You need to verify what the deflection (strength) value is for the subflooring if you want to ensure the new floor will last without things cracking or breaking loose. Check out www.johnbridge.com for help with tiling. Note, if you are contemplating natural stone tile on the floor, the joist structure needs to be twice as strong. Almost no house is built that way unless natural stone was originally specified. Some older ones won't even support a ceramic tiled floor without some help, especially after the plumber hacked up the joists when putting in the drains. Note, when figuring out deflection, it's the length of the section between supports underneath, not the size of the area to be tiled. Supports would be something like the rim joist, beam, or a load-bearing wall.

If I had access to the toilet drain pipe below the floor, I'd tear out the lead back to the cast iron, and replace that with PVC. In that process, it may be fairly easy to move the flange exactly where you want it unless that happens to be right up against a joist.

What is the distance from the FINISHED wall to the center of the drain now? Ideally, that would be 12". If you're going to put drywall on the bare studs, you'd want 12.5" now. If you had that, you'd be assured that any 12" toilet you might choose would fit. Also, code wants a minimum of 15" side-to-side from the centerline of the toilet clearance for the toilet.

 

[Ross Winberg]

Thanks!! I have the 15" side-to-side. I have 14" to the back wall from center. Studs are 14" O.C. with 3/4" subfloor at 45 degrees to 3/4" tongue and groove douglas fir flooring. I screwed everything down to the joists so should be OK.