Three Questions

[MrFinPgh]

Hi,

I'm remodeling a bathroom and began to do demo this morning. So far, it seems to be a comedy of errors or surprises.

1) after three trips to the store, I finally obtained the proper sized shutoffs for my toilet and sink supplies (3/8-3/8, 1/4 turn, threaded to compression). Now the two sink lines seem to be leaking. Following the instructions, I've only added half a turn with a wrench, once it got snug by hand. I'm seeing a lot of advice to tighten 'until they don't leak'. I've put teflon tape and thread sealant on, but I'm losing faith in the ability of these things to stop leaking. Am I doing this incorrectly?

2) When I removed the sink, the p-trap basically disintegrated when I put my channellocks around the slip nut. As I went to unscrew the p-trap from the drain going into the wall, I noticed it was turning easier than I expected. I turns out, the pipe going into the wall broke off inside the wall itself. I assume I'll need to take some of the wall out to fix this? Is this where I admit I'm probably over my head and call in a pro? I've attached a photo for reference.

3) The toilet took some doing (shutoff was really torqued down), but when I got it off, I saw a flange that was unlike anything I expected to see. The house was built in the 1930s, so I'm guessing this may just be what they used to do? At any rate, it seems to be in solid condition, but I'm not sure how to work with it in terms of putting down tile. I expected to see a round flange and then need to add an extension of some sort to make up for the added height of the tile. This seems taller than the kind I was expecting to see. Is it tall enough that I could install a Toto Aquia II without doing any extra alterations to it? Also, the prior toilet didn't seem to have a wax ring, from what I could tell. Is that normal with these flanges?

Thanks,
Adam

 

[Jadnashua]

THey make inside pipe wrenches that are designed to remove a threaded pipe from the inside, but you can probably carefully use a screwdriver and a hammer to unscrew it. Next time, see if you can find a brass nipple verses a galvanized one, and it will work and last a very long time without corroding. But, if your drain pipes are all galvanized or black iron and are nearly 80-years old, you may be in for a major repipe. It looks like your water supply pipes are steel, too, and may be a problem as well. One of the hassles with older houses.

As to tightening the new valves...keep tightening. As opposed to something like a hose that uses a gasket on the end of the pipe to compress and make the seal, the tapered pipe threads require the pipe dope and/or tape to be compressed between the threads like a wedge, and with what may be old, worn, or improperly threaded pipes, keep going. Lots of new fittings end up made with less than precise tooling or some that is dull, and the threads end up torn, rough, and not up to proper specs. One of the results of outsourcing that sort of stuff to China, and poor quality control. It's not that they can't make good stuff, sometimes they don't know better and some times, they don't care. To keep the costs low, we look for lowest price. It's our own fault.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[MrFinPgh]

Thanks, Jim. I was able to get the shutoffs on and leak free for up to 24 hours. Don't suppose you recognize that Flange?

Since I made that first post, I went to remove a window casing and ended up having to take down a good 1/3 of a plaster wall (asbestos, lead, and horsehair all in one solid dose .. I took full precautions including a tyvek suit, hepa vac, chapin sprayer). Turns out the prior owners had covered up some significant water damage and a lot of the plaster basically fell off the brick. I may need to remove more Obviously this isn't a plaster enthusiasts forum, so back to my plumbing questions:

The tub right now is run with 1/2" copper, but I'm going to switch to pex. I tried to sweat on a couple of copper-pex couplings this afternoon and hook those up to ball valves. I ran into some difficulty getting decent sweat joints; the first joint looked like it would be solid but turned out to have a pretty robust leak. The second joint, I thought i may have used more solder than necessary, but none of it got into the actual coupling. I plan to try again tomorrow.

I'm following the steps I see everywhere: clean everything thoroughly, flux on the entire joint, heat the female part of the coupling, and then touch the solder to the joint and let it flow into the coupling. I've watched the video on soldering to lead-free brass, but it seems like maybe that wouldn't apply to a 1/2" fitting? Am I incorrect in that assumption?

Thanks,
Adam

 

[Jadnashua]

You need to ensure both the inside of the fitting AND the pipe are nice and clean before you can solder. Personally, some of the fluxes out there are a major pain to work with unless you have lots of practice...it's easy to burn them out and then the solder won't flow properly. The older acid based fluxes were nicer, but the one I have found that works is one with powdered solder in it - this one, I've found, works well for me http://www.homedepot.com/p/Oatey-1-7-oz-Lead-Free-Tinning-Flux-303742/100347302

The waterbased fluxes are part of the problem...they burn off at a much lower temperature than the older ones, but with the tinning fluxes, as soon as you see the solder in the flux melt, you know you can add more to complete the joint. Rough rule, use about the same length of solder as the diameter of the pipe.

 

[MrFinPgh]

Thanks, Jim. I picked up some tinning flux this morning and was able to get the coupling attached without any leaking. I had to also use a piece of bread, because it turned out there was still some moisture in the pipe.

I wasn't able to successfully attach the tub spout pipe to the valve, though. I think this may be largely a function of my propane torch. Even after a couple minutes, the heat didn't seem to get high enough to really pull the solder into the joint - it all just kind of accumulated on the outside. Seems like the valve acts like an enormous heatsink.

At this point, I'm going to defer to a pro with it. I'd really like to understand more plumbing stuff, but it's turning into a big delay on proceeding with my project - I originally hoped to do the whole thing over 9 days and took the week off from work to dedicate myself to it. Thus far, I'm about 1/6th of where I hoped to be by now, and the scope of work seems to keep expanding (found an illegal j-box tying 3 k+t connections to a romex line held in place by a bent nail yesterday). Good thing my girlfriend has her own place!!

-Adam

You need to ensure both the inside of the fitting AND the pipe are nice and clean before you can solder. Personally, some of the fluxes out there are a major pain to work with unless you have lots of practice...it's easy to burn them out and then the solder won't flow properly. The older acid based fluxes were nicer, but the one I have found that works is one with powdered solder in it - this one, I've found, works well for me http://www.homedepot.com/p/Oatey-1-7-oz-Lead-Free-Tinning-Flux-303742/100347302

The waterbased fluxes are part of the problem...they burn off at a much lower temperature than the older ones, but with the tinning fluxes, as soon as you see the solder in the flux melt, you know you can add more to complete the joint. Rough rule, use about the same length of solder as the diameter of the pipe.

 

[Jadnashua]

A typical DIY'er often underestimates the time it will take for a project...sometimes because he runs into unexpected things that could affect anyone, but then he may not have the tools or experience to handle the job without experimentation or consultation...IOW, it can take a long time! I've been a victim of that more than I like to say. A pro has often seen the situation before, and has both the experience and tools to recover fairly quickly. Luckily for me, the stores aren't too far away, so new tools aren't far! Doesn't help the budget, though.

 

[MrFinPgh]

Absolutely. I actually was telling a neighbor this exact thing this afternoon -- I'm fine as long as everything works like the instructions say it should. Once the unexpected happens, the scope of work changes and I'm unprepared to deal with it.

I had a pro out today to fix the drain - we had to open up the wall, and he sawed out the old T fitting and put in a new ABS fitting. The old one was completely corroded. It took less than an hour.

A typical DIY'er often underestimates the time it will take for a project...sometimes because he runs into unexpected things that could affect anyone, but then he may not have the tools or experience to handle the job without experimentation or consultation...IOW, it can take a long time! I've been a victim of that more than I like to say. A pro has often seen the situation before, and has both the experience and tools to recover fairly quickly. Luckily for me, the stores aren't too far away, so new tools aren't far! Doesn't help the budget, though.