Softener issues & questions

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Reach4

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The initial gallon count on the display will be C/H-R, where R is the reserve.

Before, your reserve, rather than being entered in gallons, was 30% of the C/H amount.

Get your Hach 5-B. You can test 1 part raw water + 1 part distilled water. Count the drops to change from pink to blue, and multiply by 2. That is for hardness from about 30 to 60 gpg.

Also use the hardness kit to measure residual hardness as the gallon count gets low. The display will count down to zero, and then you are in the reserve until 2AM. Usually you want residual hardness to take zero or 1 drop to turn blue. But 3 or 4 drops would not be terrible.

Before having expected overnight visitors, you could schedule an early regen, if your count-down was getting low.
 

JustaDIYer

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Hardness tested at 28gpg. Iron was detected but not measurable, which is odd since we get rust stains every now and then.

Did find out my Fe filter was broken (for how long I don't know), the piston rod broke off from the seal/spacer piece. New part will be here this week.

What else would cause rust color stains?
 

JustaDIYer

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So I finally got my part in for my Fe filter. And I want to clean it using chlorine. The valve is a softener valve and I though what I had to do was to replace the plug for the brine valve with a piece of hose to suck the chlorine from the bottle. Then set the settings for a BD of 10min. So settings would be.

BW....8 min
BD... 10 min
RR... 5 min.


Normal settings are the same but without the BD. But when it comes to BD, it doesn't suck the chlorine into the tank. Just sits there. What am I doing wrong?

Also, I read that KL filters (what's in my Fe filter) are much more effective with air injection. How do I do that?
 

Reach4

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You would not want to use straight bleach from the bottle. I am not sure what dilution I would use, but I am thinking something like 14:1 water:bleach.

For removing iron, I would not use bleach; bleach solidifies iron. Iron Out, vinegar, and others liquefies iron.
 

Bannerman

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how do i get it into the tank using the BD ?
Is the iron filter control valve (brand and model?) programmed as a filter or as a softener?

For brine, chlorine or air to be drawn in through the brine tube, an injector would need to be installed. Backwashing Filters normally only utilize a Backwash and Rapid Rinse cycle and so do not typically utilize an injector or brine control assembly. If an injector is installed, what color/number is it?
 

Bannerman

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FM = T0.7

Seems my usable gallons went up from 1000 (old valve) to 1800.
Is your softener actually equipped with a Turbine Flow Meter or a Paddlewheel Flow Meter? It seems your old valve may have been programmed as FM=P.07, so unless you also replaced the flow meter when you replaced the control valve, the correct setting may continue to be P.07. Post a photo of the current flow meter to verify the correct setting.
 

JustaDIYer

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Is the iron filter control valve (brand and model?) programmed as a filter or as a softener?

For brine, chlorine or air to be drawn in through the brine tube, an injector would need to be installed. Backwashing Filters normally only utilize a Backwash and Rapid Rinse cycle and so do not typically utilize an injector or brine control assembly. If an injector is installed, what color/number is it?
Probably don't have an injector. It's Fleck 5810 SXT. Has the softener valve set up.


Is your softener actually equipped with a Turbine Flow Meter or a Paddlewheel Flow Meter? It seems your old valve may have been programmed as FM=P.07, so unless you also replaced the flow meter when you replaced the control valve, the correct setting may continue to be P.07. Post a photo of the current flow meter to verify the correct setting.
Turbine flow meter. All new valve head. Left the bypass is all.
 

Bannerman

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Seems my usable gallons went up from 1000 (old valve) to 1800.
If the flow meter setting for each softener control valve had been appropriate for the actual flow meter type, and if identical Capacity, Hardness and Reserve settings had been programmed in each, then the post regeneration usable gallons should have been identical or at least close within reason.

Was the old valve also utilizing a turbine flow meter but programmed for a paddlewheel meter?
 

JustaDIYer

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If the flow meter setting for each softener control valve had been appropriate for the actual flow meter type, and if identical Capacity, Hardness and Reserve settings had been programmed in each, then the post regeneration usable gallons should have been identical or at least close within reason.

Was the old valve also utilizing a turbine flow meter but programmed for a paddlewheel meter?
Hence my confusion. I copied the settings from the old valve to the new one.

As long as it's working, I'm fine. I set the DO to 7, so probably never get the full 1800 gallons and I'm ok with that.


Just have to figure out how to clean my Fe filter now.
 

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Just have to figure out how to clean my Fe filter now.
Katalox Light media is designed to 1st oxidize ferrous iron, and then filter out the resulting solid particles. 'Cleaning' KL media is normally performed by backwashing the media at the appropriate frequency and backwash rate for the appropriate duration.

While it is now clarified the KL filter is utilizing a Fleck 5810 valve equipped with an SXT controller, I don't recall other details such as tank size and the drain flow (DLFC) GPM rate.
 

JustaDIYer

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Yes, I realize the backwash and rapid rinse are the normal daily cleaning of a KL filter. Right now I regenerate every 2 days.

I'm just looking to rejuvenate the media by cleaning it with IO or chlorine (I guess chlorine solidifies the iron but I'd think the rinse cycle would flush it out, maybe I'm wrong). Apparently my filter doesn't have the injector and screen required for a BD stage. Is it as easy as just buying those parts and installing them or is there more to it? Does it matter what injector ?

Tank holds 1.5 cu ft of KL. Not sure the DLFC, I'll check later. Curious, why does that matter?
 

Reach4

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I feel unsure about the that cycle. My iron+H2S, which uses different media, sucks in about 1/11th of the 15 gallon solution tank every 3 days. It uses a white injector. The last cycle is RR -- rapid rinse. So I am wondered if the tiny iron particles stay put in the media until 3 days later, or whether they wash out largely due to the RR. RR is downward -- not upward like a backwash.
I fill my solution tank with a jug of bleach, then top up with soft water, every 33 days.

Anyway, my cycle is not theoretically ideal IMO, but if the bleach is not there, the media is not so effective.

My BD is only 4 minutes. The bleach solution is still in the top part of the media tank when the RR starts. A slow movement thru the media seem more desirable, but the hardware does not support that.

To convert a 5810 valve to be able to do a BD draw cycle there are parts you would need including BLFC stuff. Maybe a different piston-- not sure. Brine valve. See parts 2, 4, 6, 7 or 8, 9, 13 in service manual page 16. I probably missed something...

If designing from scratch from normal parts, I am not sure what I would use. I have been thinking that it may be better with an upflow brining setup, to bring the solution in contact with the media longer. A second backwash after the BD could be useful. My valve cannot do that.
 
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Bannerman

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The Backwash cycle will cause the media to be lifted and loosened so as to elimnate solidified (Ferric) iron particles to drain that were trapped in between the media granules. If the drain flow rate is insufficient, then media expansion will be less than optimal and so some ferric particles may remain trapped within the media bed.

Backwash also will cause the media to circulate (reclassify) within the tank. As water will eventually carve pathways (channels) through the media, and because water will always follow the path of least resistance, the media along those paths will become over saturated and therefore the filter will become less effective. Reclassification will eliminate those channels which will improve media effectiveness as the water will need to follow new routes through the media following each backwash cycle.

Because the spaces between media granules will be expanded in loose media, this will provide a shortcut for unfiltered water to flow through the media. The main purpose of the Rapid Rinse cycle is to recompact the media bed to eliminate those shortcuts to increase water contact with the media. Rapid Rinse will also elimnate unfiltered water from the tank which entered during the backwash cycle.

Part of the job of KL media is to first oxidize Ferrous iron so the resulting solid Ferric particles can be removed by the remaining media below. If the tank diameter is too small for the flow rate or quantity of ferrous iron, then oxidation may occur too far down within the media bed, thereby leaving insufficient media below to effectively remove the solid ferric particles. Chlorine, Hydrogen Peroxide and Ozone are all oxidizers that are often utilized individually to boost the oxidation capability of the KL media.
 
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JustaDIYer

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The Backwash cycle will cause the media to be lifted and loosened so as to elimnate solidified (Ferric) iron particles to drain that were trapped in between the media granules. If the drain flow rate is insufficient, then media expansion will be less than optimal and so some ferric particles may remain trapped within the media bed.

Backwash also will cause the media to circulate (reclassify) within the tank. As water will eventually carve pathways (channels) through the media, and because water will always follow the path of least resistance, the media along those paths will become over saturated and therefore the filter will become less effective. Reclassification will eliminate those channels which will improve media effectiveness as the water will need to follow new routes through the media following each backwash cycle.

Because the spaces between media granules will be expanded in loose media, this will provide a shortcut for unfiltered water to flow through the media. The main purpose of the Rapid Rinse cycle is to recompact the media bed to eliminate those shortcuts to increase water contact with the media. Rapid Rinse will also elimnate unfiltered water from the tank which entered during the backwash cycle.

Part of the job of KL media is to first oxidize Ferrous iron so the resulting solid Ferric particles can be removed by the remaining media below. If the tank diameter is too small for the flow rate or quantity of ferrous iron, then oxidation may occur too far down within the media bed, thereby leaving insufficient media below to effectively remove the solid ferric particles. Chlorine, Hydrogen Peroxide and Ozone are all oxidizers that are often utilized individually to boost the oxidation capability of the KL media
Thank you for that explanation.

My KL tank is 10"x54"
This is the button that came from the drain line.

16605134861783268420623011901021.jpg
 

Reach4

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My KL tank is 10"x54"
This is the button that came from the drain line.
The 600 opposite the F means 6 gpm. That is less than optimum for KL.

A 5810sxt would support more flow. In the service manual, they are called Washer, Flow.

index.php
 
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